Map Layout: 43 - early 44 planes on initial fronts of the map.

[rabbidrabbit]

Why not just have an early war section off to the side?  some of these maps are just huge.  Why not have essentially 2 or 3 maps in one?  The traditional piece, and an early war and or gv piece with 40k mountians between them.

[killnu]

Been done once already somewhere else.

if you talking about Axis vs Allies arena, i loved it.  it had more people in it than CT does here on a regular basis.

to each their own tho.

[streetstang]

Because then its not the MA anymore. get it???

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Why not just have an early war section off to the side?  some of these maps are just huge.  Why not have essentially 2 or 3 maps in one?  The traditional piece, and an early war and or gv piece with 40k mountians between them.

  Have you taken a look at your FRs in either of the Fester maps and compared it to the other maps?

[DipStick]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Early war furball island was one of the most fun times I have ever had in AH.

Heard that. Would like to see one on every map.

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by Jackal1
Have you taken a look at your FRs in either of the Fester maps and compared it to the other maps?

Fair enough but have these maps gone away?  If we are going to have large maps with the associated problems why not have diversity instead of endless of the same?

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Fair enough but have these maps gone away?  If we are going to have large maps with the associated problems why not have diversity instead of endless of the same?

Large maps have nothing to do with it.
Trinity, good FRs.
Eqanox, good FRs.
Pizza, good FRs.
The point is, you try to cram everything in a map it self destructs, so to speak.

[rabbidrabbit]

I seem to have the same weirdly low frame rates on just about any map..

How does a map self destruct if it has variety?

[Kweassa]

You know I have seen this posted for so long, so many times, I can`t begin to count it. I didn`t buy it the first time I saw it and I sure don`t buy it now.

 I'd suggest you buy it, because things have been happening that way for a long time.

 

Why are they out of reach? Anyone who plays the game more than 2 or 3 weeks should have enough perkz/smerkz to fly them.

 By this you have just contradicted your own principle in the "freedom of choice". Personally, I don't agree with Tex's idea. But at any rate, using your own logic against you;

"Why is placing some planes in backward fields limiting anything? Anyone who flies his plane for more than 20 or 30 minutes on cruise mode should be able to see enough action to participate in the MA."

 

Geez, they aint that high. lol I would say the average player is able to fly anything they wish to fly. If they want to hold on to their stash of perks for whatever reason and not use them, even though I don`t understand it, thats`s their choice.

 As funny as it seems, you didn't see it that way when I suggested incredibly cheaper perk prices on more planes in my NPA suggestion.

 If I remember correctly, you didn't like the idea because placing more perks on the planes were a sort of artificial restriction  that limits people's choices.

 So, placing 3~5 point perks on some late war planes is an unnecessary intervention in the free system in the case of my NPA, but having 60~200 point perk planes is not a limitation that is already in place in the current MA?

Even though I didn`t quote it, you stated that the early war planes wouldn`t stand up to an all out slug out like in the MA. Am I missing something here. What wouldn`t they stand up to? Are you referring to the late war planes? If so, which way is it.... They all run and won`t fight or you can`t fight a early war plnae against the fast late war planes? If they all run then no problem there. You just fight the early models that hang around. If they do stay and fight, what`s the problem with fighting them in early war planes. They zoom, you out turm em , burn their E and swat em.

 Do you really not know? Do I have to dig up AKDejavu's plane usage stats throughout the many years on how our 'early war rides' were doing in the MA?

What`s the mid war planes you were talking about that gets no use? I don`t know of any myself. From what I have seen, everyone pretty well flys what they want to unless ENY is in effect. That is always short lived and IMHO serves the purpose it was designed to do.

 It's not a problem of how one flies it "well" or "not so well". It's a problem of why the natural MA plane usage is so inherently biased towards certain plane types.

If I had a vote, which I don`t, I`d say leave well enough alone in the MA. If you want early/mid war planes against ONLY early/mid war planes then keep asking for another arena is what I would suggest.

 So your vote is in protecting the MA which ONLY late war planes fight late war planes?

 Ofcourse, you might argue that the current MA sees plenty of mid-war plane usage. If that be the case let's do a small experiment.

 Why don't we try a little, self-honest experiment of playing in the MA for a.. hmm.. 3~4 hour term, and recording the numbers of all of the pre-'44 plane types(if we can identify it) we meet in that term?

Why tamper with freedom of choice. As has been stated, this has been tryed before and failed miserably.

 Because the freedom of choice without any basic regulations, includes the freedom of choice to destroy oneself. The world grew out of the Laissez-faire mentality 150 years ago.

 

That`s why the MA is the MA like it is today.

 Yup. I whole-heartedly agree with that. That's why the MA is the MA like it is today.

 Shall we invite a few veterans who've seen the changes throughout the years, and ask them their opinion about the MA today?

I`m sorry, I just can`t make any sense out of it. Sorta seems like double talk and a thinly veiled " fly what I want you to fly and how I want you to fly" thing to me.

 Perhaps. But sometimes, 'my way' really could be a 'better way'. And there's only one way to find out.

[Jackal1]

Well I sure can`t make any sense out of the last post.
  How am I contadiciting myself? I said leave well enough alone.
BTW , that`s not my quote.

  Ok, you want to dig up some stat chart go ahead. That will prove what? I`d suggest that it would show A,B,C planes didn`t get as many kills as X.Y,Z planes.
  That is what it is supposed to show.
Planes are not flown equaly, as it should be. Some planes are flown for certain tasks, jobs, etc.  You can`t compare apples and oranges. same in this situation. If you are looking to achieve the ultimate goal of all planes being flown an equal or comparable amount of time or receiving an equal amount or comparable kill ratio, then simply put....It aint gonna happen. Like I said some planes are only flown for certain tasks in certain situations. It would be one mell of a hess if they were flown equaly.

[Shuckins]

There is a legitimate problem being addressed here, whether some want to admit it or not.

There are quite a few pilots who would like to be able to enjoy the experience of flying the early war planes, but they can only do so if they are willing to fly among a horde of other pilots flying late-war birds that are at least 100 mph faster.

Don't know if an early-to-mid-war arena would work or not, but it might be worth a try.

[Kweassa]

Ok, you want to dig up some stat chart go ahead. That will prove what? I`d suggest that it would show A,B,C planes didn`t get as many kills as X.Y,Z planes.
That is what it is supposed to show.

 It's a difficult to determine usage rates by kill numbers alone, but at any rate, that was the data chosen when HTC officially used it as a basis for perking the F4U-1C.

 I don't know about you, but the developers sure do seem to think the K/D ratio may be at least loosely considered as a means of determining overusage.

 

Planes are not flown equaly, as it should be. Some planes are flown for certain tasks, jobs, etc. You can`t compare apples and oranges. same in this situation. If you are looking to achieve the ultimate goal of all planes being flown an equal or comparable amount of time or receiving an equal amount or comparable kill ratio, then simply put....It aint gonna happen.

 I never said I wanted equal usage for all planes. I simply said that a certain overused portion of airplanes should be reduced in usage, and underused should be more promoted.

 That's not the same thing.

 Besides, even if we should take it for granted that some planes will always be more popular than others; 8% of the planes in the entire plane set making up 40% of the kills in the arena, while the rest 92% of planes make up for 60% of kills, is way too extreme. Is it not?

Like I said some planes are only flown for certain tasks in certain situations. It would be one mell of a hess if they were flown equaly.

 Why's it a 'mess'? Very interesting choice of words. Is seeing more variety of planes in the air something 'messy' which should be avoided?

 Is it 'messy' when people take for granted they must take up a 110 or a Mosquito for real ground attack sorties, instead of take up a P-51D with 2k bombs + 10x HVAR load and do everything with that one plane?

 What is 'messy' about it? I am sincerely curious.

[DipStick]

Originally posted by Shuckins
There is a legitimate problem being addressed here, whether some want to admit it or not.

There are quite a few pilots who would like to be able to enjoy the experience of flying the early war planes, but they can only do so if they are willing to fly among a horde of other pilots flying late-war birds that are at least 100 mph faster.

Don't know if an early-to-mid-war arena would work or not, but it might be worth a try.

Bingo!
Think it might help reduce the arena numbers some in the MA also. Since day one, when there are over 475-500 in the MA wierd things happen. Warping increases, vox goes out, dumping increases, etc...

[rabbidrabbit]

Maybe the backup arena could be used for that purpose if these problems are numbers related.  Other than that I see those who argue about restricting planesets on the fronts having a point about being forced to play an aspect of the game that they do not wish.  However, I don't see a counter arguement come up yet against having a separate section of the MA segragated by 40k mountains that would include different options other than 200 bases per side of the same thing.

[lasersailor184]

No, making the backup arena early war set wouldn't do anything.  As long as there are people in the main arena, no one would go into the Backup arena.


However, once it starts building up, I think it'll gain a lot of popularity.