Author Topic: Who's Aiming Nukes at Whom?  (Read 1127 times)

Offline NUKE

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French Nuke Targets?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2005, 03:22:17 PM »
From what I understand, the French have eliminated most or all of their land based nukes. They now have mostly subs and they are not targted at anyone.

The French feel more threat in a "rogue" state than anything else.

They also have a strike-first if needed nuclear doctrine. The French have plans to "give ample evidence" when their national security or interests are threated to an extreme degree. That means they may launch a small nuclear pre-emptive strike as an example of how serious the threat is to them. If that doesn't end the threat, they will whipe out the whole countries military and economic centers.

Part of French Doctorine is meant to deal with dictators who don't care about their populations....only power. Therefore, the French would seek to hit targets which allow the dictator to have power.......military might and economic security/wealth.

This is based on memory, but if you look up "French nuclear doctrine, you will probably find it.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2005, 03:24:20 PM by NUKE »

Offline Furball

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French Nuke Targets?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2005, 03:24:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
zulu, the USA and russia are getting rid of their nuks, what is your country doing to get rid of your nuks?


As it already says.. only nukes british have are in their subs, RAF is a non nuclear force now.
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Offline mora

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French Nuke Targets?
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2005, 04:28:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
sorry mora, but the usa and russia have a treaty to destroy nukes with mutual inspections, it just takes time because of the numbers involved.


I see nothing about getting rid of all nukes here:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/index.html

This is what you have agreed on:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/start3/index.html

"As of early 2000, Russia remained committed to the goal of reducing the number of strategic nuclear warheads held by each side to 1,500, while the American position remains that 2,000 to 2,500 warheads are needed for effective nuclear deterrence."

Offline Halo

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French Nuke Targets?
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2005, 05:25:04 PM »
Thanks, Nuke (great handle for this thread).  The following from the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists sheds more light (it's too long for this board; couldn't find way to link it, so here's how it begins ... it's worth a Google to finish it):  

(QUOTE)

Nuclear policy: France stands alone
Leaner and meaner? France is trying to do more with less--and that includes its smaller, but more flexible, nuclear arsenal.

 
By Bruno Tertrais
July/August 2004  pp. 48-55 (vol. 60, no. 04) © 2004 Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

In the fall of 2003, the French media reported that a major shift in the country's nuclear policy was under way. On October 27, the headline of the daily Libération screamed, "Chirac's Small Bombshell: France Will Soon Revise its Deterrence Strategy in Order to Be Able to Strike 'Rogue States,' Even Preventively." The newspaper reported that France would announce a new nuclear doctrine that would take into account "rogue states" with weapons of mass destruction, and that new weapons were being considered to deal with such threats. A few days later, Jean Guisnel suggested in the weekly Le Point that several major adjustments to the doctrine had been secretly decided in 2001 (October 31, 2003). But President Jacques Chirac and his government denied that there had been any change in French nuclear doctrine and maintained that no change was forthcoming. [1]  

The confusion was understandable. Nuclear policy in France is shrouded in secrecy--even more so than in other Western nuclear weapon states--and transparency has long been anathema in Paris. Few public pronouncements or official documents are available for analysts and media to comment on, so journalists are frequently tempted to exaggerate the importance of tidbits of information and may easily misinterpret senior officials' off-the-record comments.

The episode revealed a tension in French nuclear policy that has existed since the end of the Cold War. On one hand, France still clings to the concepts of nuclear sufficiency and deterrence--deterring major powers is still the first mission of French nuclear forces. On the other hand, since Chirac's election in 1995, French authorities have insisted on the diversity of conceivable deterrence scenarios and on the need for greater nuclear "flexibility"--including options to reduce collateral damage.

  (LONG MIDDLE PART DELETED HERE)

French leaders have suggested that the country's nuclear deterrent already plays an implicit role in the protection of Europe. In 1995, Paris and London declared that they "could not imagine a situation in which the vital interests of either of our two nations, France and the United Kingdom, could be threatened without the vital interests of the other also being threatened," and decided to increase nuclear cooperation between the two countries. [15]  In his June 8, 2001 speech, Chirac stated that any decision by France to use nuclear weapons "would naturally take into account the growing solidarity of European Union countries." But despite some occasional hints, France has fallen short of declaring that its nuclear deterrent explicitly covers its EU partners. [16]  The way France interprets the mutual security guarantee that member states have agreed to include in the EU Constitution will be an interesting test of French nuclear policy.

             (16 FOOTNOTES)
 
Bruno Tertrais is a senior research fellow at the Fondation pour la Recherche Stratégique in Paris, France.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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French Nuke Targets?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2005, 05:30:33 PM »
Aren't most if not of France's nuclear weapons tactical instead of strategic? If they're tactical they wouldn't be pointed at any one specific target like the strategic nukes are.


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Offline NUKE

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French Nuke Targets?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2005, 05:39:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Aren't most if not of France's nuclear weapons tactical instead of strategic? If they're tactical they wouldn't be pointed at any one specific target like the strategic nukes are.


ack-ack


The change in Frances nuclear doctrine now defines all nukes to be strategic in nature, due to the thinking that a nuke, if used in any way, would effect the conflic in a very large way, not just tactically.

The way they see it, any use of nukes is going to have such a large impact on the conflict that it could only considered a strategic weapon.

Offline RedTop

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French Nuke Targets?
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2005, 05:47:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
The change in Frances nuclear doctrine now defines all nukes to be strategic in nature, due to the thinking that a nuke, if used in any way, would effect the conflic in a very large way, not just tactically.

The way they see it, any use of nukes is going to have such a large impact on the conflict that it could only considered a strategic weapon.


Well I'll be...I finally agree on something with the french.:lol
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Offline Zulu7

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French Nuke Targets?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2005, 07:56:20 PM »
So why not just get rid of them? Then we have a leg to stand on when suggesting other nations get rid of theirs.

Back before WW2 the Battleship was king. Airpower kind of made them redundant so we got rid of them. Why can't nations apply the same principal to nukes. Now that accuracy and hitting power of conventional systems have improved so much. There is little strategic sense in poisoning a huge area with nukes.

Atomkraft Nein Danke as they say in Germany.



Ok I know it means Nuclear power but thats a bit daft too.;)


Offline NUKE

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French Nuke Targets?
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2005, 08:02:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zulu7
So why not just get rid of them? Then we have a leg to stand on when suggesting other nations get rid of theirs.

Back before WW2 the Battleship was king. Airpower kind of made them redundant so we got rid of them. Why can't nations apply the same principal to nukes. Now that accuracy and hitting power of conventional systems have improved so much. There is little strategic sense in poisoning a huge area with nukes.

Atomkraft Nein Danke as they say in Germany.



Zulu7, you are not talking about anything comparable in history when you are dealing with nuclear ICBM's.

Battleships? Come on.

Nuclear warheads mounted on ICBMs, subs, aircraft and artillary have power which has no comparison in history.

Offline Zulu7

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French Nuke Targets?
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2005, 08:14:49 PM »
I'm talking about how redundant weapon systems get broken up. We don't need Battleships anymore. We have better tools for the job. ergo we don't need nukes anymore we have better tools for the job.

Jetzt Alles  klaar jah? ( hows my German? Probably stinks :lol )

Offline NUKE

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French Nuke Targets?
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2005, 08:16:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zulu7
I'm talking about how redundant weapon systems get broken up. We don't need Battleships anymore. We have better tools for the job. ergo we don't need nukes anymore we have better tools for the job.



how old are you?

Offline Zulu7

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« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2005, 08:17:58 PM »
38 ok?


don't throw that oh we are all so much older and wiser stuff .

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2005, 08:20:28 PM »
well, Im 40.

You probably do not comprehend the power of a nuclear deterant.

Offline Zulu7

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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2005, 08:29:15 PM »
Jees I grew up in East Anglia. we had Lakenheath, Bentwaters, Mildenhall, Woodbridge, Wattisham all a stonesthrow from my house. Oh and we had Cruise milles with nukes on em at Greenham common and Molesworth. and then to cap it all The idiot govt built a PWR like the one at Three mile Island! Just up the coast from us.( Probably why I'm interested in planes.That and the fact I was son of a father who worked at RAE Farnborough and spent my first six years living virtualy at the end of the runway there )  

So maybe thats  why I'm anti Nukes. Think we were quite possibly in the middle of a major target area.  So I spent my entire teenage years under the Warsaw pact threat. Hell we even had leaflets pushed through our door telling us how to survive a nuclear attack by building a shelter out of old doors!!! :rolleyes: :lol



It looked like this.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2005, 08:36:30 PM »
lol, I have been in a major ( way higher priority than you) target area for my entire life, and I  recognise that our nuclear deterance has protected me for my entire life.