Need help for Ack supression !

[straffo]

Well I don't know how to destroy ack without getting shot down  
Can some of you post jabo films with ack destruction ?

Because the queen is not happy trading 1 typhoon / gun emplacement  

[bike killa]

hi straffo!
i'm not sure what you want to use to destroy acks? bombs? rockets? for dive bomging good thing is to drop from more then 5k. i mean it's safe more or less. for rockets good thing is to have good speed. you schould find some flims at 308th Squad webpage. if not, send me e-mail and i'll record this kind of film you are looking for and  'll send you it  
<S>

[straffo]

Well I'm perhaps to low when I start my run(ruin  )
Whatever the method (gun/bombs/rocket) I choose I end under the silk  

[Lephturn]

Look up some of The Wrecking Crew when you are online.  These guys do Jabo hardcore.  I'm sure there are many others who can as well.

A good thing would be for you to go and practice in the Training Arena.  Try taking the C-Hog loaded with bombs.  If you start a dive from 10k or so at minimal airspeed and use your speed brakes, you should be able to take out acks with a bit of practice.  With a bit more practice, you can strafe 'em dead with those cannons.  If you are strafing ack, be sure to set your convergence out as far as it will go, as you will be firing at greater than normal ranges.

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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com


"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
 - Steve Earl

[SKurj]

Heya Straffo

Like yourself I used to have problems with ack suppression.  The AK's have it down to an art.  A couple of these guys can take all the ack down at a field alone using the La5fn if you can believe it!
My personal best is 5 acks  which I've done several times at both bases, and facilities(factories etc) alike.
The technique I use is this:

I come in typically at 8-12k, I dive in working the acks from the outside in.  To explain.. I try to choose an ack that is to the outside, which will bring me within range of as few acks as possible per dive.  This usually means I hit the VH ack first.  I then work my way around the outside.  I dive in, pretty steeply, jinking a little, and as the ack I am targetting opens fire I start returning fire and walk the bullet stream through the ack, and pull up jinking a little as I do so.
It doesn't take much jinking to foil the ack.  I pull up basically into a loop or hammerhead and repeat.  I rarely attempt more than one ack per pass, though by not doing so, it takes me awhile to get many.  The good guys will get 2 or more in a pass.

An aircraft with good zoom ability is more suited to the task than a TnB AC.  I like the p47, Typh and Hog for this duty.

Look up AKcurly or AKNimitz in the MA sometime and watch how these guys do it.

SKurj

[This message has been edited by SKurj (edited 11-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by SKurj (edited 11-14-2000).]

[straffo]

Sorry Bike didn't found any film at the 308 site  

The key is to dive vertical from high altitude with low speed
my technique was : low angle/low Alt/high speed and it's obviouly the wrong technique  

[bike killa]

sorry straffo
i checked it. there is film section on 308th webpage, but there are films from Lybia scenario only   i can make a film for you, but i'll be flying not earlier at thursday probably. if it's no problem for you send me email at bikekilla@poczta.onet.pl and i'll send you back this film you are asking for at friday. i'll also ask guys from my squad about it. maybe some of them had film like that already.
as you see from posts above you can do it at many ways, try every of them and choose what ya like   personally i'm going reversed over base, when i'm over the target. then diving from about 10K and trying to drop my egg (1 egg 'cuz i'm spitV dweeb   ) from about 5k. then hitting full throttle and runing away form AAA range  

[bloom25]

Films don't usually show the acks going down, though they might show the message.  Basically how you do it is to:  Start a steep dive from right above the base, out of ack range.  Line up on an ack on the outside of the field.  When it starts to shoot at you, fire back at it quickly and pull out of the dive.  Make sure you are always turning a little bit to make the acks miss you.  Try to regain most of your altitude and continue to repeat until the ack is dead.  When there is only 1 or 2 you can probably manage to kill them both in one pass.  The real secret is to pull over 1 g at all times when the ack is firing at you.  It only takes the ack about 1/2 second to lock on once it starts firing within close range.  Flying a p47, typh (this one works really well), or f4u will allow you to survive perhaps 1 hit without dying.  The cannon shells can also take out an ack with a single hit.  (50s can do the same with 1 or 2 hits.)

If you have rockets or bombs you can try firing a few of them at the base and hopefully kill a few of them.

It's kind of an art form to kill acks via JABO, and it's much easier when there are 3+ planes all doing it.  The ack will tend to concentrate on one plane at a time, leaving the others free to get a good shot off.
 

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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[gospel]

It really helps to attack the ack in numbers.  The ack can only track one target at a time, so time you attack as the ack is tracking someone else   .

If you are dropping bombs, to be accurate you need to make sure you are not trying to force the bomb on the target using your joystick or rudders.  This was a hard habit to break for me, as I tend to use the rudder pedals to line up gun shots in air to air combat   .  It helps to use autotrim on angle to keep the plane unloaded and on track towards the target.  It takes practice to get a feel for how low you can go before dropping.  The lower you go, the more accurate your drop will be, and the more likely you will die too!

For starters, dropping on a vehicle field is easier as there are less ack (or is that acks?)

[prz]

Actually, there is another guns-only technique one of the better hog pilots taught me (forgot whom) that works very well and needs much less E, time than the vertical dive one (which is foolproof though for bombing).

You go full speed at a fairly shallow angle towards the ack but not facing it exactly (horizontal separation and a little of jinking will fool it). Roughly when ack starts to shoot or shortly after that you roll your wings vertical and pull a horizontal corner speed turn into the ack shooting your guns and walking the fire through it. After that you can continue turn (bad if multiple acks present) or go 45 degree vertical and extend jinking slightly.
Thtat works fine up to 3 acks present or so and also to kill slow planes high in ack. Doesn't work too well on a field full of acks I found.

[Rickenbacker]

I surprised the hell out of myself the other night, when I managed to take out a whole bunch of acks with the .50's on the Spit 9. I was just firing at the damn thing from what I thought was way out of range, pissed that I'd used up all my cannon rounds on some flaks, and it blew up!

The secret seems to be to fly towards the ack at a fairly shallow angle, and give it a 1/2 second burst when the first tracers come towards you. This gives you enough time to pull away safely, and kills the ack if you hit (so you still have to know where your bullets will land  . I was amazed, I've used the same approach with rockets, but I just didn't think guns had the range.


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        Rickenbacker (Ricken)

                -ISAF-
the Independent Swedish Air Force

[Dowding]

Hi Straffo! Shallow angle attacks are good if you have long convergeance set. I tend to fly at high speed with the flak to the a little left or right of the cross hair. Just after the ack opens up, I walk my fire over the target and quickly pull away. It works for me most of the time.

I think the key thing is 'practise' though.  

[funked]

If you strafe them be sure to do three things:
1.  Get some energy.  You need to be at corner speed or slightly above when you start a pass.  But you don't want to be going so fast that your maneuverability is limited - i.e. don't exceed corner speed by too much.
2.  Keep your lift vector moving.  This means rolling and pulling back.  If you hold a straight flight path you will die very quickly, and if you make a constant radius turn you will die almost as quickly.  But if you keep changing the direction and amount of gees you are pulling, the AAA will have trouble hitting you.
2.  When you fire, don't wait around to watch your hits.  Fire, roll/pull, fire, roll/pull, etc.  If you keep your nose on the target long enough to watch your hits, the ack will have a bead on you and you will die.

[bloom25]

Here's what I've found:  Making a diving pass on the acks is pretty easy to do once you get the hang of it.  Just pick an ack at the outside of the base and make a steep angle dive on it.  Line it up in your gunsight.  When it begins firing at you, wait for about 1 second, fire a short burst while turning away from it.  You can then extend/loop and make another pass.

The biggest danger doing this is that you won't really be able to check your 6 and you will be pretty easy to kill if there are any enemy fighters nearby.



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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[StSanta]

Ok, will add my way of doing it.

I can safely strafe acks in the 190 from a minimum altitude of 5k. In the 109G10, i can do it as low as 2k.

What I do is I fly over the field, roll left and right while diving a little, select my target. Then I roll over, chop throttle and pull into a steep dive that leaves me with the gunsight before the ack. Then, I let the planes natural tendecy to pitch up let the gunsight walk over the target while I fire. This if followed by a quick roll to the left or right, and a near blackout pull. This is the critical time for some reason; pull too little, and you'll get hit.

Once over the critical point, I roll the other way, pull gently til outta harms way. Then up in an immelman and repeat.

Too bad acks firing doesn't show in films - in my example, the acks would seem to be firing just under me.