Interesting P-39 story.....

[humble]

Found this while looking for something else....

"In the spring of 1943,  I was sent to Panama and trained in Curtis P-40 E's and RP-40 C's. The `R' designated a non-combat rated aircraft and was equipped with .30 Caliber machine guns. In contrast, the E model and following versions had six .50 Cal. guns in the wings and was a very stable gun platform.  It was also considered a first-line fighter along with the newer P-39.   After 40 or so hours in P-40's, I was assigned to the 28th Fighter Squadron flying P-39N's out of a jungle base at Chame.  Having heard numerous stories about the tricky little plane, I had the usual first flight trepidations but found that the rear-engine ship allowed great forward visibility during landing and takeoff and the tricycle landing gear allowed one to taxi and steer as easily as a child's tricycle - if you remembered to keep your toes pumping the rudder pedals to keep pressure in the brake system. (As kids our bicycles were equipped with New Departure brakes applied by merely reversing pressure on the pedals. The Spitfires we flew in Africa had hand brakes like all European bicycles which led to some interesting ground maneuvers.)  Actually, it was scarier to watch a P-39 landing as a spectator on the ground than it was piloting one.  From the ground it appeared that the extreme nose-high configuration on final flare-out was sure to induce a stall.  In fact a good landing resembled nothing so much as the attitude used to land many current high performance jet fighters. Even the torque produced by the 12 cylinder engine and metal propeller was easily controllable.   Our 28th Squadron C.O. had a favorite landing procedure.  He would roar down the runway at a high rate of speed, pull up into a loop, and activate his landing gear while inverted on top.  Then he would cut his mixture control and complete the loop, landing "dead-stick" and roll power-off to his parking revetment.....

came from this URL....


http://www.31stfightergroup.com/31stReference/Profiles/Riddle.html

[Guppy35]

Track down a copy of "Nanette" by Edwards Park.  He was a P39 pilot with the 35th FG in the Pacific.

Best fighter pilot book out there.  He talks about things they did with 39s too.

Dan/Slack

[humble]

Just amazed a guy would land like that repeatedly in a forward field enviornment...obviously the plane had to be very docile with regard to departure charicteristics...no way your gonna recover that...

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by humble
Just amazed a guy would land like that repeatedly in a forward field enviornment...obviously the plane had to be very docile with regard to departure charicteristics...no way your gonna recover that...

I think it was more common then we'd like to believe.  Seems like I've read that guys like Bong and McGuire would do that with their 38s too.

As for departure characteristics.  The 39 apparently was not very dociile in the hands of new guys, but the 39 vets  knew how to handle her.

Dan/Slack

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Yeah, that was one of Bong's favorite tricks. Buzz the runway WFO at about 5 feet, pull up for a loop, kill the engines, drop the flaps and gear, and land deadstick. Stan Richardson told me Hoover's 16 year old son was notorious for that in their P-38. Kind of like Bong's little buzz job that got him a day of doing some housewife's laundry after he blew it off her clothesline. Or his habit of looping most bridges a P-38 could fly under.

I guess we have to consider that such behavior was more sane and normal if you spent most days with people trying to shoot you and kill you. Not to mention that we're talking about the absolute hottest sticks ever to grace a cockpit. They were that good, and better, and always sought to push themselves even more.

[SunTracker]

P-39 wouldnt have been so crappy had it had a Merlin engine and supercharger.  In fact, it would have probably saved alot of lives.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

The Merlin would have thrown off the balance and center of gravity, and would not fit the fuselage well. The USAAC/USAAF took the original Allison with both a crank driven centrifugal supercharger AND a turbocharger (just like the P-38) out of the P-39. After the war, a P-39 with a P-38 engine setup was in fact one of the fastest race planes ion the air. It was in fact the USAAC/USAAF who ruined the Bell P-39. The Allison had nothing to do with it. General motors proposed a two speed two stage supercharger for the Allison as well, but was not allowed to use it. The Allison was intended to be turbocharged as well as using the built in supercharger. Curtiss wanted to use the turbocharger as well.

[humble]

Originally posted by SunTracker
P-39 wouldnt have been so crappy had it had a Merlin engine and supercharger.  In fact, it would have probably saved alot of lives.

It was originally designed with a supercharger...in fact had it been rolled out as designed it would of been awful close to the P-63....probably would of been the dominant fighter in the early war set by far for any country....as it was it was great at lower alts...totally dominated the early 109's at lower alts prevalent in eastern front combat...thats why russians loved it so much....

[Widewing]

Originally posted by humble
It was originally designed with a supercharger...in fact had it been rolled out as designed it would of been awful close to the P-63....probably would of been the dominant fighter in the early war set by far for any country....as it was it was great at lower alts...totally dominated the early 109's at lower alts prevalent in eastern front combat...thats why russians loved it so much....

When the XP-39 rolled out on April 6, 1939, it was powered by a V-1710 fitted with a turbocharger. Once the eggheads at Langley got their hands on it, the turbocharger was deleted, the wingspan clipped and the fuselage lengthened, all in the interest of improving drag and performance. Naturally, performance was reduced, especially above 10,000 ft.



My regards,

Widewing

[Widewing]

(Hero of Pearl Harbor) George Welch finally received orders to return to the Pacific. George reported to the 36th Fighter Squadron of the 8th Fighter Group in New Guinea. The good news was that this squadron had been seeing combat. The bad news was that is was flying the hopeless Bell P-39 Airacobra. Welch found himself flying mostly ground support missions, this being largely due to the P-39’s poor combat performance and its limited range. Certainly, the 37mm cannon was useful against ground targets, but the Bell was at a serious disadvantage when facing Japanese fighters. This was largely the fault of it being fitted with an Allison engine that lacked a two speed, two stage supercharger. This meant that performance dropped off quickly above 12,000 ft. At the altitudes necessary to engage the Japanese bombers and fighters, the P-39 was an absolute dog. Welch did not view the lack of performance at altitude as the primary sin of the P-39. What truly turned Welch against the Airacobra was its limited combat radius. With the majority of air to air engagements being fought beyond the reach of the Bell, opportunities to shoot down more Japanese were nearly nonexistant. Naturally Welch noted that there were squadrons on his base that were flying the P-38G Lightning. Now, here was a fighter! Fast, long ranging and equally important, its twin Allison engines were turbosupercharged. This allowed the P-38 to climb higher and faster than the P-39. It was everything Welch wanted and the performance of the P-38 was reflected in the tally of Japanese aircraft being shot down. George wanted the Lightning, he wanted it badly and cornered his group commander and inquired as to when 36th could expect to get the P-38. The answer was: “When we run out of P-39s.” That was all Welch and the pilots of 36th needed to hear. Virtually any problem encountered in flight (real or imaginary) resulted in a bailout from that day forward. The operational loss rate climbed dramatically. Welch found himself in hot water with the Group commander, who pointed out that George had been very successful in the P-39. Hadn’t he shot down two Vals and a Zero on the one-year anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack (bring his total to 7)? That didn’t deter Welch, who knew he could have splashed a hell of a lot more if he’d been flying the Lightning. Finally, the Brass gave into Welch’s repeated requests and transferred him across the field to 80th Fighter Squadron. At last, George had his P-38, and he made the most of it.

From: The Amazing George Welch



My regards,

Widewing

[Despair]

Russian number 2 in kills Pokryshkin got most of his kills in P-39 (IIRC 64 confirmed kills), also I read an interesting story somewhere that when it was decided to make a filmed story about him , the communist party thought that it was not right for a patriot to fly a foreign plane and specially for the film they painted IIRC Yak-3 in his skin but he broke the tail wheel on take off since he never flew it before. It took some tries for him to get filmed there right.

[humble]

"Several of the Red Air Force's ranking aces flew the P-39 for a major portion of their combat sorties. The top ace in the P-39 and number four overall was Guards Major Gregoriy Rechkalov, who shot down 50 of his total 56 kills while flying a P-39. Guards Colonel Aleksandr Pokryshkin, who finished the war as the number two Soviet ace with 59 individual and 6 shared kills, reportedly flew the P-39 for 48 of his kills. Another high scorer in the P-39 was Guards Major Dmitriy Glinka, who destroyed 20 German aircraft in 40 aerial engagements in the summer of 1943, and finished the war with an even 50 kills, 41 of them while flying the P-39. Third-ranked Soviet ace Guards Major Nikolay Gulaev transitioned to the P-39 in early August 1943 with 16 individual and 2 shared kills. He flew his last combat sortie on 14 August 1944 (ordered to attend higher military schooling), leaving the battlefield with an additional 41 individual victories and 1 shared kill after just over one year in his P-39."

[SunTracker]

P-63, which is a P39 with a 1400hp engine, achieved same top speed as P-51D Mustang (437mph) at 30,000 feet.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by SunTracker
P-63, which is a P39 with a 1400hp engine, achieved same top speed as P-51D Mustang (437mph) at 30,000 feet.

And had awful range which was it's downfall.

remember the Russian 39s operated at lower alts where the Cobra could compete.  The guys in the 350th FG flying 39s in the MTO until August 44 also did fine as they to operated at lower alts where the lack of supercharger didn't hurt.

When they ran into 109s or 190s they generally came out on top, but it was because they were on the playing field of their choosing, not at the alts the LW birds were best at.

Profile is a Russian P63C

Dan/Slack

[Widewing]

Originally posted by SunTracker
P-63, which is a P39 with a 1400hp engine, achieved same top speed as P-51D Mustang (437mph) at 30,000 feet.

I've seen 400 mph at 30k for the P-63 (per America's Hundred Thousand). Where the P-63 really performed was low to medium altitudes: 420 mph at 20k, 375 mph at sea level (WEP w/water injection, 1,825 hp). This thing is very much the American La-7.

HTC, model the P-63.... Please!

My regards,

Widewing