Author Topic: .net ? (Read 948 times)

Dux · « **on:** February 17, 2005, 12:44:23 PM »

I remember hearing something to the effect that the .NET runtime environment should be avoided like the plague... but I just ran across some software that I reeeally would like to have, but it requires .NET to run.

What are your thoughts on .NET these days?

Skuzzy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2005, 04:11:46 PM »

Run away,..far away,..fast,..very fast. Nevermind passing GO!, get out of dodge while you can!

Anyone that likes .NET has to be masochistic. It's a bad thing.
==
All that said. The problem is .NET does not know how to leave the system alone. A .NET application might/could/should be ok. BUT,..yes Virginia, there is a BUT,...I would be very, very careful.
Contact the software supplier and ask them how intrusive thier application is?
Does it preload anything at Windows runtime? If yes, then drop the app like so much garbage on fire.
Does it hook any interrupts? If yes, then take a bat to it and put it over the left field wall.
Does it require an Internet connection? If yes, then hook it to the tail end of a funny car about to holeshot.

You see, answering "yes" to any of the above means .NET will be loaded and running all the time, even when the application is not running. Simply put, your computer becomes a solid molasses hockey puck, where anything you want to do suddenly becomes an exercise in praying to the various deities begging for relief from the sleep inducing drama required to get a single keystroke recognized by your computer.

Other than that,..might be ok.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2005, 04:37:02 PM »

Oh cmon, dont hold back Skuzzy, tell us how you really feel.

Dux · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2005, 04:39:43 PM »

okay... so it's bad...???

hehe. What you said was pretty much the impression I had... in fact, I probably got the impression from you in the first place. :-)

The software is called World Wind, put out by NASA, of all things. Here's a link...
http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/index.html

I think I may install it on my work PC (unless .net causes security issues... they don't even allow Java and ActiveX here) as this program could really be a great help. If it messes up the PC at work, I'll just have it wiped.

Thanks, Skuzzy.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2005, 04:44:21 PM »

.NET does have security issues. I do not know to what level, if any, they are being exploited yet.

I kind of look at this way. If an application *requires* .NET, then whoever wrote it does not have a clue how to program for this environment (Windows). As such, I avoid anything from them like the plague.

EDIT: I don't click on .gov links Dux. Those sites get hacked so often it is rediculous. You never know what your computer might catch.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2005, 02:17:30 AM »

Set a System Restore point before you install it just to be safe.

Stone · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2005, 02:26:06 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy

You see, answering "yes" to any of the above means .NET will be loaded and running all the time, even when the application is not running. Simply put, your computer becomes a solid molasses hockey puck, where anything you want to do suddenly becomes an exercise in praying to the various deities begging for relief from the sleep inducing drama required to get a single keystroke recognized by your computer.

Other than that,..might be ok. [/B]

eeeek, how do I know if .NET is loaded on my pc at boot as Skuzzy describes?

A task in task manager maybe?

Skuzzy · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2005, 06:52:16 AM »

It wil not show in the task manager as it is a collection of DLL's. Only exe's show in the task manager.

There is no way for a user to know all this stuff is loaded on thier computer. It's one of many hidden things MS does.

You have to install .NET (right now anyway) from the MS update site. If you have not done that, then you are probably ok.

Modas · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2005, 02:26:27 PM »

Doesn't the .Net stuff automatically get loaded on XP service pack 2? Or am I incorrect here...??

Skuzzy · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2005, 02:45:43 PM »

An older version does, which does not activate at install time.

eagl · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2005, 04:24:02 PM »

I got the world-wind software, and guess what... the latest microsoft .net security patch will not install on my computer. It fails out every time. I don't know what the heck is causing it to fail out, but I've uninstalled everything I think could be causing the problem and it still won't patch. So I'm basically screwed running a system that is vulnerable to a very very publicly recognized security problem, possibly due to installing one single .net enabled program.

My other 2 computers took the .net patch without complaining, but neither of them have ever run a .net enabled program.

Dux · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2005, 07:19:28 PM »

Thanks for the feedback, guys... I'll wait until those rocket scientists release a version that doesn't need .NET.

lol... I work with many real rocket scientists; the title is not always complimentary.

Eagl, other than that, what do you think of World Wind?

llama · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2005, 07:39:00 PM »

You can tell .NET is installed by going to the Add/Remove Programs control panel. You'll see it listed under "Microsoft .NET 1.1 Runtime." If it isn't there, then you don't have it.

I'm afraid this is the second time I'm going to list a different opinion than Skuzzy in a month, which I don't think has ever happened before.

I was wary of .NET, but when an App I REQUIRED needed it, I did some research and benchmarks.

First of all, I'm not wild about the idea of adding a bunch of new runtimes into my system, and you shouldn't if you don't have to. Additionally, I monitor all my background Services and Startup Programs with a critical eye regularly.

That said, after I installed .NET, I found NO new startup programs and NO new Services starting up with my system. My Memory usage did not change one iota. My before-and-after benchmarks had no meaningful difference. My online games, and indeed all my online programs, acted exactly as well as they had been before.

What is .NET? In my mind, I think of it as a 22 megabyte collection of things similar to Visual Basic runtime DLL, except in this case, the DLLs in question allow programmers to create apps that make network and GUI calls very easily. Too easily, really. And these DLL's can easily be called and probably have lots of bugs and security holes and risks. Still, my Gut Reaction is that most .NET problems people have are REALLY from the cheesy applications these wanna-be programmers write using the .NET framework.

Just like how it isn't the Visual Basic Runtime Libraries that cause problems, but all the crummy VB applications people install that use it.

As for your Rocket Scientists' software, I would bet that it will NEVER be rewritten to NOT use .NET, so you might as well get over it. Software is being modified to USE .NET industry-wide, not the other way around.

Make a system backup. Install .NET. Check out your system. Run the update, Then install your App and see how it goes. If there are problems, then restore from your backup. Be vigilant about updates, but you should be doing this anyway...

-Llama

eagl · « **Reply #13 on:** February 19, 2005, 04:07:29 AM »

Worldwind is neat. It requires a crapload of network bandwidth and it helps if you have a lot of system memory, but if you're patient it's very neat.

715 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2005, 02:54:18 AM »

I checked Add/Remove Programs and my machine apparently has .NET runtime 1.1 installed. I don't even remember installing any software that mentioned .NET.

I presume that once you have this there is no way short of a reformat & reinstall to get rid of it?