Author Topic: Global Warming or Global Manipulation? (Read 582 times)

Halo · « **on:** February 18, 2005, 06:13:47 PM »

What does global warming have in common with witch hunts and eugenics?

Maybe politicized science that is neither good politics nor good science.

Novelist Michael Crichton (The Andromeda Strain, Jurassic Park) provides another rousing adventure, this one confronting theories of global warming, in his latest book "State of Fear" (HarperCollins, 2004).

Just in case anyone misses the point, he summarizes the nonfiction aspects of his research in:

* a five-page Author's Message

* a three-page Appendix I, "Why Politicized Science Is Dangerous"

* a two-page Appendix II, "Sources of Data for Graphs"

*a TWENTY-ONE page Bibliography

* and footnotes and graphs throughout the text.

The fictional adventure is a good yarn made all the more credible by Crichton's nonfictional homework.

In Appendix I, Crichton says: "I am not arguing that global warming is the same as eugenics. But the similarities are not superficial. And I do claim that open and frank discussion of the data, and of the issues, is being suppressed."

He concludes: "In my view, there is only one hope for humankind to emerge from what Carl Sagan called 'the demon-haunted world' of our past. That hope is science.

"But as Alston Chase put it, 'when the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power.'

"That is the danger we now face. And that is why the intermixing of science and politics is a bad combination, with a bad history. We must remember the history, and be certain that what we present to the world as knowledge is disinterested and honest."

Good luck, huh? Pretty difficult to find research that isn't funded by someone with an agenda.

Provocative reading. Recommended buy or checkout from your local library.

Zulu7 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2005, 07:08:45 PM »

I think that says it all!

Bodhi · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2005, 07:13:22 PM »

when some one provides actual FACTS that the world is indeed warming, and not a warming cycle that will be followed by a cooling cycle, I will then support the global warming idgits.

Otherwise, stfu until you have proof.

Zulu7 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2005, 07:19:19 PM »

Now I assume stfu means what I think it means. In which case how about refraining from that kind of language. It aint big and it aint clever. Oh yeah bit like the worlds largest poluter.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2005, 07:45:04 PM »

China?

bustr · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2005, 07:58:27 PM »

China is exempt from any global accords on pollution. Mostly because China refuses to be constrained or acknowledge sensorship from anyone. At Chinas current rate of industrial and economic growth, China will soon take the lead as the worlds polluter. After all, China likes the increased prosperity that goes hand in hand with it's rapidly growing industrial manufactoring sector.

China is becoming the new USA. So Zulu, in this respect China is worse than the U.S. unless you just have a jones on for Bush and leverage any chance you get to denigrate him.

cpxxx · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2005, 07:58:58 PM »

Zulu, don't tell me you believe in this 'global warming is caused by humans' crap?
You'll only look foolish in a couple of years. The pendulum is swinging the other way against human caused global warming.

Thrawn · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2005, 08:00:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bodhi
when some one provides actual FACTS that the world is indeed warming, and not a warming cycle that will be followed by a cooling cycle, I will then support the global warming idgits.

LOL, you don't understand the scientific method at all do you?

cpxxx · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2005, 08:19:15 PM »

The problem Thrawn is that belief in global warming is no longer science. It's a faith, more like a a religious belief. Most people out there accept the utterings of the the priest (scientists) without question. After all, how are we mere laymen expected to understand the workings of the great god, climatology?

It must be true, if the scientist say it's so. Anyone who disagrees is seen as almost seem as guilty of blasphemy.

I began to question the whole business some time ago, particularly when everone began to accept every dire warning as 'gospel' as it were.

If you need an example, try and find some mention of the great 'hole in the ozone layer' crisis in the media of late. What happened to that. Was it ever real?

Thrawn · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2005, 08:34:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by cpxxx
The problem Thrawn is that belief in global warming is no longer science. It's a faith, more like a a religious belief.

Whose belief in global warming?

Nashwan · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2005, 08:46:29 PM »

The ozone layer is still reducing, although the rate is slowing, as expected.

See http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4010
for example.

Just because the media no longer have it as a headline story doesn't mean the events aren't still occuring.

The enviromental movement have without doubt contributed to the scepticism over global warming, they have been shouting since the 70s about one imagined crisis or another, and like the boy who cried wolf, many people no longer believe them.

But the enviromental movement never had the sort of support amongst scientists that global warming has now.

Just because enviromental nutters have taken up the cause of global warming, after it was postulated by serious scientists, doesn't mean that the science is false.

In other words, look at the evidence, not the track record of some of the loonies that are shouting loudest (and not doing any of the research).

If Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth were the only sorts of groups talking about global warming, I'd ignore them, but there are an awful lot of mainstream scientists who are doing the real work, who seem to agree it is a problem.

Lizking · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2005, 08:55:31 PM »

Actually, Nashwan, the best they can do is say that it is happening. They can not say exactly why, since it has happened on a regular cycle for the history of the planet, nor can they say what the results will be with any degree of accuracy. The scientists have an overwhelming agenda that is clouding the data, and they are in danger of losing the respect they have worked on for the last 400 years. Alchemists and soothsayers is what they are allowing themselves to be branded as, by agenda driven reading of the data.

Global warming is a fact. The conclusions being put forth are nothing more than subjective opinion, and lack substantive data indicative of their conclusions.

OOZ662 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2005, 10:25:26 PM »

Global warming does exist, the only problem is is what is creating it how.

cpxxx · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2005, 10:47:11 PM »

The problem with scientists is that like the rest of us they are human and prey to all the usual faults and failings.

When you devote your whole career to something and then you come across something which casts doubts on your work or contradicts it. Then you may very well ignore it or dismiss it as an aberration. That is why Scientists are constantly coming up with new 'proof' that global warming is man made. They must otherwise their whole life's work is meaningless. If there was no doubt of man made global warming it wouldn't be neccessary to constantly reinforce the 'facts'.

On a positive note, there is no harm in reducing pollution and emissions and looking for alternative sources of energy. That is a good thing and will be the best thing to come out of this scare scenario.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2005, 11:08:27 PM »

CPXX, that was a very deep thought. Perhaps people need to take the word of someone smarter then them to feel comfortable?

And since we've gotten rid of priests, why not listen to the scientists?

Btw, the problem isn't what is causing Global Warming, the problem is when is it going to end? Soon (probably not in our life time), Global Warming will peak and then start falling.

Then everyone will be freaking out about Global Cooling.