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Author Topic: Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?  (Read 2464 times)

Offline bustr

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2005, 01:44:58 PM »
I did a search for the expression, there are many sources for it , but where aircraft are concerned this one is used the most to explain it:

Michael Nunamaker writes that a friend of his in the U.S. Air Force suggested a World War II origin: "According to him, the length of the ammunition belt (feeding the machine guns) in the Supermarine Spitfire was nine yards. Therefore, when a pilot had shot all his ammunition he would say he had 'shot the whole nine yards'."
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline HoHun

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2005, 03:27:38 PM »
Hi Toad,

>Whole Nine Yards

In German, only a three-masted ship flying square sails on all nine yardarms is a "whole ship".

With the great British (and American) naval tradition, dollars to dimes that's the concept behind the phrase.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)
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Offline straffo

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2005, 03:35:39 PM »
Pyro your ruler is upside down ;)

Quote
Originally posted by Pyro

Looks like there's 13 rounds per foot in a belt of .50.  Therefore, 27 feet would equal about 350 rounds.  


but with 0.303 ? what will it give ?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2005, 03:40:01 PM by straffo »
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Offline JB42

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2005, 04:25:17 PM »
The P51s did use feed belts, but their guns were designed different. Where all 6/8 .50cals in the Jug were the same gun and needed to be staggered to allow each belt to feed, the BStang had 4 different .50cal guns in them. Each desinged to be in a certain spot on the plane. For instance, the left outside wing gun feed in slightly further back and from its left than the left inside wing gun. Conversely, the right outside wing gun feed in from the right/forward. This allowed for the muzzles to be flush with the front of the wing
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Offline Tony Williams

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2005, 08:35:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB42
The P51s did use feed belts, but their guns were designed different. Where all 6/8 .50cals in the Jug were the same gun and needed to be staggered to allow each belt to feed, the BStang had 4 different .50cal guns in them. Each desinged to be in a certain spot on the plane. For instance, the left outside wing gun feed in slightly further back and from its left than the left inside wing gun. Conversely, the right outside wing gun feed in from the right/forward. This allowed for the muzzles to be flush with the front of the wing


Do you have a source for that? I have to say that it sounds highly improbable to me. The major benefit of the .50 M2 is that it was standardised - apart from being convertible between left and right feed, the examples of each version were the same.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
forum
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Offline JB73

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2005, 08:39:25 PM »
i odnt know what i find cooler, the fact that pyro has over a foot of .50's laying around the house, or that he got a pic of a foot up that quick LOL
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Offline Pei

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2005, 08:54:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by HoHun
Hi Toad,

>Whole Nine Yards

In German, only a three-masted ship flying square sails on all nine yardarms is a "whole ship".

With the great British (and American) naval tradition, dollars to dimes that's the concept behind the phrase.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


It is "Ship-rigged" = 3 masts with all square sails (apart from the spanker on the mizzen mast, and any stay-sails).
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Offline Cobra412

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2005, 09:54:58 PM »
I have yet to see anywhere that it states the M2s were different in the B models.  The inboard guns were mounted higher and further forward in the wing.  The outboard guns were mounted slightly lower and aft in comparison to the inboard guns.  The guns were angled in their mounts.  The inboard guns feed belt came up and over the outboard gun.  

The angled belt routing along with the guns being canted over in their mounts was one of the biggest reasons for jamming.  I've got some photos that will show what I'm talking about.  I've got a close up one of Col. "Tex" Hill climbing into his P-51C that shows just how differently they are mounted from the front.  I've also got some line drawings of the ammo bay.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2005, 09:57:54 PM by Cobra412 »
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Offline Pyro

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2005, 08:56:53 AM »


7.62 x 63 looks like 23 per foot.  That would be about 620 rounds per 9 yards.

The pic's from my office.  I just had a digital camera handy.
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Offline rshubert

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I'm jealous.
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2005, 09:17:28 AM »
My office doesn't have a fireplace.  And I live in Michigan, where I could USE a fireplace in the office.
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Offline straffo

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2005, 10:03:31 AM »
hehe :)
you did put the ruler correctly this time ;)

thanks
« Last Edit: February 24, 2005, 10:11:00 AM by straffo »
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Offline frank3

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Re: I'm jealous.
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2005, 10:29:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rshubert
My office doesn't have a fireplace.  And I live in Michigan, where I could USE a fireplace in the office.


I bet you don't have a row of ammonution above your fireplace :)

Better watch out with that Pyro!
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Offline Pyro

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2005, 10:40:09 AM »
The fireplace is all show and no go.  We fired it up once but it was a carbon monoxide factory.  Seemed pretty cool when we were looking for office space but I'd rather have the wall space now.  I need more bookshelves.
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Offline frank3

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2005, 12:31:15 PM »
For books or for more explosives :D
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Offline bustr

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Why Are P-47 Guns Staggered?
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2005, 01:06:48 PM »
May bustr leave room now to seek medical help in getting footware removed from oral cavity??? I did not think this much effort would be spent on one silly expression..........:) I has learned my lesson...........;)
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bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.
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