One more time. Please HT

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Lye-El
I probably should, I would probably get more kills.  If I don't shoot on a HO the other guy usually does, so I usually try to get out of the way instead. I generally don't vulch either. Let them get wheels up. If you don't want the fighters there, my feeling is take down the hangers.  I guess I'm just a relic from DOS AW. That stuff still doesn't feel right. But maybe I'm not to old to learn, and then maybe, just maybe, I can join your squad.  

Lol, we would be unstopable

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by Lye-El
This is an interesting thought,  but what come to my mind is: What about the guys who aren't furballing, and have every intention of killing the carrier.  I, unfotunately, don't have the one shot kill skills,  How many times are the Indians under 1k out before somebody actually takes them out of the sky? Or diving down at 500mph Not much time for accmulated (sp) 303 /5 inch rounds to do their intended job. Like the thought though.

SHHHHHHHHH!!

I'm gettin pretty darned accurate dropping a ton of ord from a Hog high enough up to survive the ack and hit a CV.  I still dont survive often ENOUGH, but it's getting better.  Let em take out the laser guided CV puffies, I'll survive more

[red420]

well Ded, if you see cons appearing on dar out of nowhere over the water, or see black dots rising off the water where there are no friendlies, you might be near a cv. if you don't like those 5" guns, do what I do. f6f from 15k with a salvo of 6, 1000 pounders and rockets and take those puppies out. problem solved

[g00b]

Getting popped by your own 88's as you blast the wings off the enemy they're shooting at and he gets the kill on you!

Happened last night, have it on film.

Shouldn't friendly ack stop shooting when friendly aircraft are around?

g00b

[Urchin]

Deleted for flame.

[Jnuk]

i like the pinging flak idea.
i think the damage should be progresive as to how close the flak is when is goes off
eg, a flak hit on the outskirts of your "box" may or may not give you a .303 sized hole, and moving closer in you may get 1,2,4,8,16,32 etc holes in you.

[hitech]

think the damage should be progresive as to how close the flak is when is goes off

It alread is.

HiTech

[Jnuk]

ah, i guess im one of the unlucky ones.  seems like it's all or nothing with me.

edit:well thats not entirely true.  I have had flak hits where i didnt immediately die. But it usually involved losing an engine, half a wing, and maybe a rudder.  
so i guess the damage i was talking about would be more "pings" or shrapnel hits causing the damage, or if your lucky just holes. the flak damage ive encounted so far has been, from least to worst, nothing, buncha stuff just breaks, death.

anyway, i dont mind it that much, flaks just one of those hazards.  swoops idea just got me thinkin.

[Lye-El]

Now, playing devils avodcate for the real life guys, it's...Lye-El!

In real life a 5 inch shell didn't do "progressive"  it just went *BOOM* AND you had falling shrapnel to run into as it fell to the ground after it expended its energy from the burst.  

That could be a source for the .303/ 5 inch hits...but then you would have to track the shrapnel as it falls and track aircraft interception with the pieces. Too much data for too little return. You could also incur hits from a shell that went off 5k over your head a couple of minutes ago and the dispersion field would be quite wide.

Now about a different tact. Might be too much added caculations though....Zones measured from the center point of the blast of a 5 inch. As you move out damage becomes less?

An experiment is in order, let me take this 5 inch shell into town and take up into the church tower to simulate an airburst....ok, got it.. Now when I hit it with this hammer I should be able to figure out the blast radius. Ok, here I go, swinging the hammer NOW!............................. ............................. ............................. ............................. ........................  
   $%#@!  THAT HURT!!!!!!

[dedalos]

Originally posted by red420
well Ded, if you see cons appearing on dar out of nowhere over the water, or see black dots rising off the water where there are no friendlies, you might be near a cv. if you don't like those 5" guns, do what I do. f6f from 15k with a salvo of 6, 1000 pounders and rockets and take those puppies out. problem solved

Well, I am trying to avoind that.  I figure the guys upping from the CV want to fight.  If I get picked by a maned 5" when I am no threat to the CV, I will up LANCs and make sure I dive bomb the CV.

g00b, had that happen too.  On the tail of a p47, ready to pull triger, and get killed by friendly puff.  However, if the puff is  from a maned gun, it is harmless to friendlies.

[storch]

The single greatest killer of storch is following some pork/vultcher runner into his CV ack.  look at my stats.  I'll keep doing it just the same though.  I have nothing but contempt for the pork runners and will gladly trade many, many cartoon lives for the occasional kill.  The ack is BS but of course you'll never convince anyone at HTC of that fact.  

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by hitech
It alread is.

HiTech

Dagnabbit!, by the time I read the posts and respond I'm already behind the conversation.

So for my previous posts...uhhhh....never mind.  

[Rolex]

Here is a portion of information about 5" gun effectiveness from a site listing it's sources.

"In 1944, the Japanese could scout to a range of 560 miles and attack at a range of 400 miles. _In comparison, the US Navy could scout out to just 350 miles and attack at 200 miles. (Reynolds 139) _Earlier in the war this could have been decisive, but this deficiency was largely negated by increased defensive abilities and technologies, not the least of which was the new invention of radar. _Radar had many uses and was vitally important to carrier warfare. _At Midway, Japanese lack of radar meant that their carriers were crammed with planes refueling and rearming when the decisive American airstrike arrived, leaving them extremely vulnerable at the worst possible time._ In addition to detecting attacking enemy aircraft, radar directed intercepting aircraft and anti-aircraft fire and could find the enemy fleet. (Hughes 116)

Radar was also fitted on 5 inch anti-aircraft shells. _These proximity shells exploded when near the target, instead of at a specific set time with previous fuses, vastly improving the effectiveness of the guns. (Hughes 116,132)_ The Bureau of Ordnance estimated that guns firing proximity rounds were four times more effective than guns firing regular time-fused rounds._ (Rowland 286)_ Their performance in battle was impressive._ Soon after their introduction, an American task force reported that it downed 91 planes of a 130 plane Japanese formation. (Rowland 287)"

Source: Link >>

[rshubert]

And here's some more info about the development and use of VT (proximity) AAA...


http://www.historic-glendale.net/pfuze.htm

[rshubert]

to show some of the gun directors used during the war.  Note that the explanation of the operation shows that the director operator used a reflecting gunsight to keep a pipper on the target aircraft, and the director computed range, lead, and elevation.  

In AH, we don't have directors, and need to compute lead and elevation in our heads.  We also don't have prox fuses on the auto-ack, and the light ack doesn't follow the lead of the gunner manning the guns.

I guess my point is this:  All the historical evidence shows that it was suicide to get too close to an American naval task force in the war.  The very existence of Kamikazes shows that conventional attack was almost impossible.  Why should it be any different in AH?  I go after CV groups to sink them.  I expect a very low success rate, due to the difficulty of hitting a target that moves and maneuvers, and the heavy defenses.  When I am gook/lucky enough to get my hits and sink my target, the challenge makes the victory sweeter.

And, as been said, any fighter pilot silly enough to get too close to the CV deserves his fate.