Please unperk the Spit14, F4U-4, Tempest5 and the Ta152H

[g00b]

The F4U-4 and Tempest flown correctly are simply dominating in a typical MA engagement.

Spit14 is nice, but maybe perked a wee bit high.

TA-152 is uber at higher elevations, just because it doesn't rock on the deck doesn't mean it's not worth the perkies.

I strongly disagree that low level performance is the main factor in determning an aircrafts value. Ord, range, guns, and handling all play a significant role.

Only people who do not posses the SA and ACM to avoid having to run out on the deck all the time feel the low fast planes are significantly better in the MA setting.

Look at Levithan in the SpitV
Look at ManeTMP in the P47
Look at KBMAN in the C-Hog

None of these planes have stellar low alt speed. Yet these guys will hand you your bellybutton over and over and routinely land 5-10 legitamate air-air kills.  They "could" fly LA7's all the time, yet they don't, I wonder why?

Personally I advocate perking more planes at lower cost.

g00b

[Quah!]

[x0847Marine]

I see no harm in trying something different, or perhaps assigning modified perk systems to certain maps.

Is an altered perk system for 1 week going to cause chaos?

The game, MA, (aka fiction arena) is fun, but it can get mundane real quick.

As I see it the perk system is backwards, allowing the better players to fly the best planes is only asking for a mismatch. The less skilled players should get access to the better planes more often.

Perhaps adjust perk cost based on player rank.

I do agree that something different should be at least tried.

[GreenCloud]

what a waste of bbs space..


LEAVE the Planes ALONE...


I liek it..fly what you want..


give away tempest and spit 14s?....wow..thats frikn insane



really ghey


Im voting for..LEAVE IT ALONE


and stop cryn when soemone is faster then you...

[Urchin]

Why in Gods name do you keep beating this horse?  You'd think PETA would have you in shackles by now.  

Most anyone with a half a brain that realizes "Hey.. it really IS mostly the plane..." understands that the La-7 is better than all of our current "perk" planes.  

Hell, for that matter the G-10 is better than all of our current perk planes, except maybe the Tempest.

You want to know the reason the La-7 will never be perked?  Simple, it is a money-maker for HTC.  It allows people who would otherwise be fodder to have fun.  

The system isn't "broke".  HTC is making money.  If a time comes where HTC isn't making money any more, you might see changes made to the plane lineup.  Till then, you are just pissing into the wind.

By the way, the reason "balanced" planes aren't popular is because of the "gameplay" in the arena.  Fights tend to be X on 1, not 1 on 1.  In a 1 on 1, a "balanced plane" always does something better than its opponent.  In a X on 1, there is always at least 1 enemy plane that does it better than yours.  So you are best off picking the fastest, or the best turning.  I'd be a little more interesting if the La-7 wasn't the most manueverable fast plane, as well as being the fastest.. I really have to wonder how much use it would get if it did say 365 on the deck, and the Dora did 380.

[Kweassa]

Urch, the balance between a 'money maker' and a 'game buster' hangs by a thread. Something can be successful for a certain term, but often that success starts to hamper further development rather than become the fundamentals of it.


 Oh, and by the way,

 Please, read the damned thing before commenting on it. Did somebody want the La-7 to be perked? I sure as hell know it wasn't me, at least not on this thread.

[Kweassa]

The F4U-4 and Tempest flown correctly are simply dominating in a typical MA engagement.

 So is any plane when flown 'correctly'.

Spit14 is nice, but maybe perked a wee bit high.

 Too high.

TA-152 is uber at higher elevations, just because it doesn't rock on the deck doesn't mean it's not worth the perkies.

 Just like the P-47s are uber at higher elevations?

I strongly disagree that low level performance is the main factor in determning an aircrafts value. Ord, range, guns, and handling all play a significant role.

 Right, so how about the P-51D which has:

* low alt speed
* high alt performance
* 2nd longest range on internal fuel
* carries 2k lkbs + 6 HVARs
* 6x .50s
* excellent handling in all axises + combat flaps

 Did I miss anything you brought up as being 'important'?

 Still no? Not perk material? Because its too popular to be perked?

 OK, so it's popular. That's great.

 Then let's give a chance for the F4U-4 and the Spit-14, Ta152H to become popular too.

Only people who do not posses the SA and ACM to avoid having to run out on the deck all the time feel the low fast planes are significantly better in the MA setting.

 So, when that someone who does not posess SA and ACM decides to run to deck in his plane, what's the vet gonna do if he chooses to chase him?

 Use a tractor-beam? (or go down low?)

Look at Levithan in the SpitV
Look at ManeTMP in the P47
Look at KBMAN in the C-Hog

 Look at my reply to Pongo.

 Kbman, Levi, Mane are individuals. Sure, I see them time to time on what they can do. However, whenever I see Levi land a 10+ kill sortie in a SpitV, I also see both enemy and friendly SpitVs near me getting shot down in dozens.

 Think about that g00b.

 The Spit14, Ta152, F4U-4 are deadly planes and would be sickeningly deadly if they had Levi, Mane, and Kbman for its pilots. True, true. But then again, the same applies to all planes.

 We're talking about the general effectiveness of certain perked plane types compared to unperked types of simular performance, not about one potent individual in one plane.

 And I say the Spit14 and the Ta152, F4U-4 is no more a 'threat' than the La-7, P-51D, Fw190D-9, Typh, and Bf109G-10 already is in MA.

[Fariz]

Ta152 is exceptionally hard plane to fly in MA environment, and you will find its usage felt in AH2 comparing to AH due to changes in game phisics. For strange reason it is a plane which became worse with every good change in AH. Better flying phisics in AH2 made it very tricky to fly, and almost impossible to fly agressively. Last icons change left it one of 2 perk planes, which will be identified at long ranges, and while 262 has speed to get away, 152 will be still a perkmagnet.

I really do not see other reason why it is perked other than the historic reasons.

[Kweassa]

After all his long hours, even longer posts, hard work that he put into advocating for "PERK THE WHOLE DAM MA!" campainge. He does a 180 and now wants to unperk the fastest most leathal planes in the game?

ROFL.

I call bullchit and I also disagree strongly with unperking them.

 Why?

 Since obviously according to your general, cynical logic as shown in this thread, you don't give a rat's prettythang im what HTC decides to do or not. You just want the game, don't have any alternatives yourself.

 So, are you against the suggestions because you have your own 'vision' that is different from mine, and the current reality of MA suits it?

 Or is it simply because you hate persistent people with persistent ideas, and think any idea that might change what you're already used to is a threat to you in some personal way?

 Speak up Morph, the soap box is yours. That is, if you have anything else to say than just tuff-but-hollow words like "ROFL", "LOL", "whiner", and "Bullshi*"?

I'm glad that Im not the only one that sees this whole thread for what it is. The war and peace version of

wah wah wah I coudnt catch an la7 on the deck..the game is fubar.

 Maybe I should have started with some other examples involving Fw190D-9s. Perhaps your 'first impression' might have been different.

 But then again, who cares. The 'first impression' is so basically embedded in your skull that no matter how much I explain that this is something about the 4hog, Spit14, and the Ta,... you keep coming back to "this is just another Lgay whine - yawn" attitude.

 Remind me to choose my examples more carefully when I have you as a reader. It might actually be easy to manipulate you if the first impression sticks that good to you.

 

Please dont make the mistake of associating long winded with well thought out.

 Can't dispute that. Sorry, it's a bad habit. Very hard to get straight to the point without citing everything I had in mind - because I'm afraid I might be misunderstood.

 But then again, with all the explanations I used, I'm still misunderstood as a "this is just another Lgay whine" thing. *Shrugs*

this is just a whine. Implementing it would just make the game worse.

 Why?

There is not a chance in hell of Pyro implementing it so we can just let kwassa publish his heart wrenching findings

 No, but there's a chance that they might actually consider it when the going gets really bad, and figure something must be done.

 Ofcourse, no one user would suddenly mind-control HT or Pyro into implementing something they want immediately. But things people have wanted for a long time, have a tendency of being finally implemented in AH, even if it takes years.

Sorry about the Spit XIV Karnak. Its a perk plane for sure. It just doesnt fit your style, you fly to stick your head in the hornets nest and doing that in a perk ride that isnt fast on the deck is suicide. It doenst make the plane less of a perk ride though.

 So what does the Spit14 do SO MUCH BETTERr than the Bf109G-10, that the Spit14 is perked at 60, and Bf109G-10 at zilch?

 Better maneuverability and twin Hizookas are worth 60 points, huh?

[Urchin]

Honestly, I support what you want in principle.  I'd dearly love to see more of the fighters that are modelled flying.  I just don't think it is ever going to happen.  

You and I both know that the Spit 14, F4U-4, and Ta-152 (especially the Ta-152) wouldn't "imbalance the arena" if they were unperked.  The Tempest probably would, in my opinion (combining near La-7 performance with 4 Hispanos).  

I think the Spit-14 would see some people flock to it for a month, before they realize the La-7 or Spit 5 is better suited to the way they fly, at which point it would drop down below the D-9 and G-10 in use, to around where the Ki-84 is now.  

The F4U-4 would replace the F4U-1D.  

The Ta-152 would continue to see almost no (<1000 kills per tour) use, simply because it really is that awful.

I even think the only "negative" effect of unperking the C-hog would be to take all the D-Hog kills and move em over to the C-hog category, it wouldn't replace the La-7/P-51/Spit 5/ Niki on the top of the heap.  

One plane I really have always been curious about is the Niki.  In AH1, it *was* a viable alternative to the Spit 5.  It turned almost as well, was faster, accelerated almost as well, and had about the same firepower.  In AH2, the handling went south in a hurry, in my opinion nuetering the plane.. I wouldn't give it good odds against a Spit 9 in a fight, much less a Spit 5.  But it continues to see heavy use... I really can't explain it.  

Anyway, this is all fascinating (if pointless) debate, but I think I can safely predict that there will be no major changes to the perk plane lineup in the forseeable future.

[Tilt]

If the only ac that can be "purchased" by the perk system is the 262 then the perk system loses credibility...........

If the perk system is helping to balance game play then its best kept................

If some unperked ac are unbalancing game play then they are best perked.................... but none are (currently) unbalancing game play.


Beyond the above it is ridiculous to perk a plane popular with many players because the use of that plane annoys other players.


However having said that.......

I dont understand why the Spit XIV is perked (either in terms of historical  "representiveness" or game balance)

I think perking the La7 (3 x b20) and leaving the La7 (2 x shvak) unperked would probably achieve the bulk of the wishes so often writ here.

The only prob with the Chog is that it is non representative but interms of game balance I reckon it deserves another chance unperked.

I still dont know why the Ta152 had time and resource spent on it but that was a long time ago..........

[Pongo]

"Most anyone with a half a brain that realizes "Hey.. it really IS mostly the plane..." understands that the La-7 is better than all of our current "perk" planes.
"

maybe the people with only half a brain.

[Halo]

Another well-thought analysis by the Prince of Perks.  

(QUOTE)  

So, my new set of perk suggestions:

*Set1

Tempest: 15 points
Ta152H: free
Spit14: free
F4U-4: free
F4U-1C: 5 points

(UNQUOTE)

Good idea, Kweassa.  I vote yes.  

Then again, I have always disliked the perk system.  As the political maxim goes, certainly can't please all the people all the time.  

However the Main Arena is designed, somebody is always unhappy, and always will be no matter if all planes are perked or none are  perked.  

Historical matchups and balanced plane sets are best and most logical in the Combat Theater, which unfortunately never seems to be as popular as the Main Arena.  

Could that be because many people don't like limited or restricted plane sets?  

Dunno, but I've always believed Aces High could have its cake and eat it too with unperked Main Arena and historically accurate varying matchups in Combat Theater.

This debate always ties in with rotating plane sets as practiced in WarBirds.  There too many people did not like being limited in their plane choices even when they were mostly historically accurate matchups.

Bottom line is HiTech & Company have to continuously attract enough paying customers to pay the bills and make enough profit to stay motivated.  This bulletin board and threads like this give them lots of feedback.

But their dilemma always is trying to decide whether the bulletin board is sufficiently representative to reflect the druthers of most their customers.  Or is the BB primarily the most passionate and articulate customers advocating viewpoints which the majority does not necessarily share?

I'm guessing Aces High staff (whether HiTech alone or with some others) carefully track membership numbers plus BB comments from the posters whose opinions they have come to value the most, and adjust the game accordingly within the parameters of their own game vision.  

That's why I'm betting that Kweassa's latest suggestion Set 1, which offers a thoughtful detailed adjustment and reasonable compromise among perk and no-perk advocates, has a good chance of being implemented.

[Urchin]

Originally posted by Pongo
"Most anyone with a half a brain that realizes "Hey.. it really IS mostly the plane..." understands that the La-7 is better than all of our current "perk" planes.
"

maybe the people with only half a brain.

Maybe so... but in the land of people with no brains, the man with half a brain...

[MOSQ]

Originally posted by OIO
See? If the 38's flaps were fixed this whine wouldnt even be here!

See? If the ki-84's flaps were fixed this whine wouldnt even be here!