French Aircraft

[Raptor]

well I know the French had some planes developed. But Ive never heard of them being used? Where they only used in the 6 weeks France was in the war or were their French Airfields used in Britain?
Fighters

Bloch MB-152


Morane-Saulnier MS.406C.1


Potez 631C.3

Attack Aircraft

Bloch MB 174 A3


Breguet Bre.693 "Guppy"


Potez 63.11 A3
Medium Bombers

Amiot 354

Strategic Bombers

Amiot 143


Farman F.222 2BN.5


Liore-et-Olivier LeO 451

Dont exactly look like top of the line aircraft for 1939... but what do you expect, they are French

[bunch]

I know that axis D.520s (not pictured) fought victoriously against Hurricanes in syria & were strafed targetishly in N.Africa by F4Fs.  I remember reading somewhere that they were used as LW advanced trainers as well....



..The Amiot 350 series was a damned nice plane in it's era - faster than Ju88a-4 (but less bomb load).  This is the type St. X flew to Arras I think.
Attractive, no?

[Angus]

D 520 saw combat both in France and in N-Africa.
It was fast a nimble enough to create worries for Spit, Hurry or 109 drivers.

The MS saw service in France as well.

So did some of the attackers.

I think some MS's were shipped to Finland as well, or maybe D520's?

The LW gobbled up a lot of those and used as trainers, that one is true. But really many went to Vichy.

AFAIK the French airforce was the biggest in Europe spring 1940...

[straffo]

Originally posted by Raptor01
Dont exactly look like top of the line aircraft for 1939... but what do you expect, they are French

I guess this sentence is just the result of your ignorance ,the Amiot 143 is the last of a 1928 design.

Angus I think the fins got some MS406 and MS410 but no D520

and they modified some to produce the MS-Morko with a klimov engine

[Panzzer]

Finland had Morane Saulnier 406's, but I don't think many MS.410's saw action in FiAF. And Finland didn't have any D520's.

edit: Here's a link on the Finnish Moranes. 77 MS.406's and 10 MS.410's were used by FiAF, pilots got 135 kills in Moranes (1940-44), last one in August 1944.

[storch]

yup the French AC aquitted themselves very well in combat.  Now with regard to the Frenchmen........

[BlauK]

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/ftrsqn21_history_7.htm

---
Squadron 14 began to receive better performing Morane Saulnier 406 (MS) aircraft in autumn 1942 and that became the most important type during the next year. Morane was still a usable fighter in 1941 having a speed of 449 km/h at 5500 m/18.500 ft altitude, but time passed also this type fast. The situation was the same with the Curtisses at Squadron 32. Curtiss was already slower than enemy aircraft during the war of attrition, but it was superior against LaGG-3 in dogfight because of its smaller turn radius.

The Finns developed a more powerful version of the Morane during wartime, called the "Mörkö-Morane" (Monster-Morane) (MSv), which had better weapons, speed (525 km/h at 4000 m/17.000 ft altitude) and climb rate than its predecessor. Unfortunately only two "Mörkös" (Monsters) were modified before the Continuation War ended.
---

More about Moranes in FAF:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/kari.stenman/sih04.html

[Jester]

D. 520 is in roughly the same class as the Hurri I.  Only a handful were built when Germany invaded France though. Most of the 520's that were built that ended up as German trainers and for Vichy France were built after the Germans had taken France.

The MS. 406 is a little slower but was pretty numerous. Was basicly the main French Fighter of the BOF.

These planes would be fairly easy game for the 109E-4 & 110. To make it really interesting would be to pit them against early versions of the the 109 like the D & E-1 that were the main LW strenth during the BOF.

While the French AF had some good, fast Attack planes - there bomber fleet was completely out of date and was quickly eliminated.

[HoHun]

Hi Jester,

>D. 520 is in roughly the same class as the Hurri I.  

Hm, I'm not sure that's an adequate description.

The D.520 airframe was in the class of the Spitfire and the Me 109, but the engine was not in the class of the Merlin or the DB601.

The Hispano-Suiza gave the D.520 good high-altitude power - I'd say from 5 or 6 km up, the D.520 enjoyed competitive performance.

However, at low altitudes the engine wasn't competitive at all, so even a Hurricane I might have been better there. (I don't have Hurricane performance figures, but the D. 520 topped out at 420 km/h at sea level.)

With regard to manoeuvrability, the French found that the D.520 had a turn rate and radius equivalent to their captured Me 109E, but thanks to its slats, the Messerschmitt could ride the stall safely while the D.520 tended to flick out sooner or later.

>To make it really interesting would be to pit them against early versions of the the 109 like the D & E-1 that were the main LW strenth during the BOF.

Well, the E-1 had almost the same performance as the E-4. Against the baby Messerschmitts, the D.520 would hold the speed advantage, and (except close to sea level) the climb rate advantage too. The light-weight Bf 109B/C/D would outturn the D.520 easily, though.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Jester]

I said the D.520 was in the same "Class" not the equal of the Hurri I which was a much better a/c all around IMO.

The D.520 top speed is 336 mph to the Hurri's 324 mph. Climb and ceilling are roughly the same with a little edge to the D.520. Armament would probabily come out close to the same weight of metal with the 1x 20mm & 4x 7.5 mm MG's to the Hurri's 8x .303's.
It is close but I think the 109E-4 and Spit 1 are in a higher class.

There was a big difference in the E-1 & E-4 - mainly the 4x 7.92mm MG in the former vs. the 2x MG's & 2x 20mm cannons of the latter. Even with the low performace of the early model 20mm's on the 109E-4 it makes a big difference in a rolling dogfight.

Besides, it is academic - there were only 36 built at the start of the Invasion of France with a couple dozen more delivered before France fell. Of the 905 ultimately built most went to Vichy France, Germany & her Allies. Would have been interesting to see how the BOF would have went if they would have went into service a year earlier.

[straffo]

It's not really fair to compare the D520 with the E4

[Raptor]

Originally posted by straffo
I guess this sentence is just the result of your ignorance

i was just saying by looks, the fighters and heavy bombers look out-dated, though the tactical bombers/attackers look fairly capable


as for use.. who actually used the french birds? axis? and in what roles, I've never heard about their impact on the war, what was their significance?

[straffo]

As I remember only "satellite"  countries used the French plane on front line , countries like Romania.

Some planes like the LéO451 were used for transport by the LW,D520 and MB152 were used to train future LW fighter pilot.

Some were used by the Lufthansa.


Btw I was not trying to be harsh when I used the word "ignorance",not being a native english speaker I try to get the more accurate word to translate my thought and sometime fail.

I apologise if this word was too strong.

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Raptor01
i was just saying by looks, the fighters and heavy bombers look out-dated, though the tactical bombers/attackers look fairly capable


as for use.. who actually used the french birds? axis? and in what roles, I've never heard about their impact on the war, what was their significance?

Check out the Syrian battles with the RAF.

[Raptor]

Originally posted by straffo
Btw I was not trying to be harsh when I used the word "ignorance",not being a native english speaker I try to get the more accurate word to translate my thought and sometime fail.

I apologise if this word was too strong.

understood, but I am pretty ignorant about this subject