Author Topic: U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'  (Read 3715 times)

Offline Traveler

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #165 on: February 28, 2005, 10:52:18 AM »
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Originally posted by Toad
Explain the whole Rwandan thing for me then please. Maj. Gen. Romeo Dallaire sent a fax to the Department of Peacekeeping Operations at UN headquarters in New York informing officials that a genocide was being planned. Dallaire outlined the genocide plans in considerable detail and asked permission to take preventive action.

The same day, he received a reply from the UN telling him that he had no mandate to act.

Why send soldiers? What's the point?  Window dressing?
 
They figure about 800,000 Rwandans died while several thousand UN "Peacekeepers" were there.

Explain the Dutch Batt to me again then. About 7,000 Muslim males were killed in Srebrenica... well, massacred by the Bosnian Serb army.  While the "Peacekeepers" stood by.

You send a bunch of soldiers with guns, after they are invited but if the killing goes on these soldiers are expected to.... withdraw?

Is that how it works?

If so, then like I said, quit sending soldiers. There's no point to it.

Or maybe do the same thing but call the troops "UN Powerless Observers of Slaughter". At least it'd be an honest name.

Best of all... don't send troops. Face it, if all you are going to do is  oversee a ceasefire or peace treaty as a neutral third party and report to both sides on what they see then you don't need soldiers. Sissies and treehugging politically correct ladies will serve just as well in that role.


The UN is the most political , corrupt organization that I have ever seen.  I work as a IT business consultant and have worked at the UN head quarters in New York City and at the HQ in Belgium.  The purpose of the UN is not to stop war or save life.  What I have come to realize is that the only purpose of the UN is to  redistribute wealth.  

I make that informed opinion based on my business experience gathered over the last 30 years and partly on my military experience from the late 1960’s, I was a member of the US Army’s 5th Special Forces and received training and practical experience on counter insurgency, Jungle war fare and terrorist tactics used to influence the local population.

As a business analyst I have reviewed the systems employed by the United Nations to both employee it’s people and pay it’s vendors.  As different world events have been responded to by the UN with either military police actions, or relief in the form of food or healthcare and most of the time involving all three.  This is accomplished by hiring local vendors to assist and provide services, services such as hotel rooms or other lodging , transportation for health care works or food stocks brought in by the UN.  Of course there is always the need to secure storage space.  The UN buys these services from the local vendors,  and as the audits which have come to light in the last few years show, sometimes the owners of the vendor services companies  are the relatives of the UN workers that make the selections of the vendor services.  Or more likely just corrupt government officials lining their pockets by taking kickbacks and bribes.

The Original purpose of the UN has been lost along the way.  I am 57 years old and  in my life time I know of no war that the UN has ever prevented, I know of no world hunger that the UN has cured.  I know of no world health problem that the UN has resolved.  I know that collectively billions of dollars are redistributed through their business systems on an annual basis.  And I have little faith  that the UN can get the aid to where it is needed.  

The UN should be abolished.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2005, 10:56:18 AM by Traveler »
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Offline ATA

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #166 on: February 28, 2005, 12:12:00 PM »
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Originally posted by Traveler

The Original purpose of the UN has been lost along the way.  I am 57 years old and  in my life time I know of no war that the UN has ever prevented.

Sure,is Iraq UN's fault as well?
Oh i'm sorry it was Bush's idea.

Offline Traveler

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #167 on: February 28, 2005, 02:15:36 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Somehow that doesn't surprise me. I'll give you three examples:


War: http://www.usip.org/peacewatch/2004/6/macedonia.html

Hunger: http://www.wfp.org/aboutwfp/introduction/emergencies.asp

Health: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/738071.stm


So what you meant to say was:


Your second set of quotes are not accurate, you altered my statement, but published it as if it was a quote, in other words,  you lied.  But then maybe truth doesn matter to you?

The UN press office in each case released the information which you beleive shows what an execelent job the UN is doing.  
What I would ask you to do is provide three examples that are not directly related to the UN.  

I actually worked at the UN and I know how the PR operation works.  Also if you do look at the press releases and you take the time to investage where the UN rented the trucks from to move the food or health supplies or what ever, you will see that the vendor that provided the service was directly releated to someone at the UN.    

Can you produce any independent not produced by the UN directly.   At this point the UN has been arouond a long time,  there must be at least one independent news story, if not hundres or thousands that document how the UN resolved the problem.  A news account that was not part of a press release from the UN.  What they call in the business Hard News.
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Offline Martlet

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #168 on: February 28, 2005, 02:17:22 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
DynCorp is not a UN member. It an American merc company.

No I'm not going to be your pimp Martlet.


Oh, I'm sorry.  They weren't UN members, they were hired  by the UN to assist the pimping.  Did they help you, or did you freelance?

Offline Martlet

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #169 on: February 28, 2005, 05:08:36 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
If I remember correctly there's a board member here that works for DynCorp in Iraq. I'm sure he'll appreciate you calling him a pimp.


Trying to share your guilt?  Must be really eating at you.

Offline Martlet

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #170 on: February 28, 2005, 06:41:43 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
LOL no, I think I must be really eating at you since you're so obsessively stalking me. :lol


I'm after justice.  You're running from it.   It has to be your conscience.

Offline Martlet

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #171 on: February 28, 2005, 06:53:16 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Am I annoying you Martlet? :lol


Nope.  How could you annoy me?  It's unfortunate that your conscience doesn't ignore you, though.   I guess that's convenient.  You could support or participate in corrupt and criminal behavior if it did.

Offline Martlet

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #172 on: February 28, 2005, 06:59:51 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Very well then. I guess we'll continue the GScholz/Martlet show tomorrow. Good night.


Good night.

Offline lazs2

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #173 on: March 01, 2005, 08:58:29 AM »
staga... are we comparing body counts?   I believe we are doing pretty well and as toad says... we are going after the bad guys... we have a reason to be armed.  

lazs

Offline Staga

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #174 on: March 01, 2005, 09:34:18 AM »
Nope.

You typed "they go around carrying guns like they were real soldiers and mean bussines. they ran into a real fight and got creamed".
I pointed out that when troops get ambushed there usually are quite many casualties; just like in case with Bangladesh's bluebarets.

btw how do You know those weren't "real soldiers"? What were they then?

Offline Toad

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #175 on: March 01, 2005, 10:00:29 AM »
"Peacekeepers".

Big difference.

The difference between nothing getting done in the Balkans and something getting done in the Balkans.

How long did the UN "Peacekeepers" get shot at there before NATO soldiers finally convinced the Serbs to knock it off?
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Offline lazs2

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #176 on: March 02, 2005, 08:43:14 AM »
staga... when have they not gotten creamed?  Real soldiers may get ambushed but they put up a good fight and ocassion.... even win one.

lazs

Offline Staga

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #177 on: March 02, 2005, 10:07:50 AM »
So these guys didn't put up a "good fight"?
With "Hinds" & all ?

okay; guess You were there and know better than me.

Offline Martlet

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #178 on: March 02, 2005, 10:30:42 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
You mean like when your "real" soldiers had to be rescued by UN forces in Somalia?


Yeah.  That time.  When the US had to force the UN out of the compound at gunpoint.

Offline Toad

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U.N. troops 'die in Congo ambush'
« Reply #179 on: March 02, 2005, 11:51:15 AM »
The whole problem in the "Blackhawk Down" Somalia affair can be traced to the refusal to properly equip the force.

The Task Force asked for heavy armor -- in the form of Abrams tanks and Bradley armored vehicles -- as well as the AC-130 gunship, but the Clinton Administration denied those requests.

Simple fact.

Quote
Secretary of Defense Les Aspin resigned two months after Somalia, having acknowledged that his decision on the armor had been an error. A 1994 Senate Armed Services Committee investigation reached the same conclusion. But perhaps the most poignant statement came from retired Lieutenant Colonel Larry Joyce, father of Sergeant Casey Joyce, a Ranger killed in Mogadishu: "Had there been armor ... I contend that my son would probably be alive today ..."


And don't forget the one HUGE difference between Somalia and a UN operation like the Congo.

The US forces were going after the "bad guys" to remove them.

Not so in the Congo.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!