Attention all Skinners and WWII Gurus.

[Cobra412]

I've been sitting here think about the dedication and the passion that some have for this game.  It seems that the community as a whole wants this game to be the best that it can be. Granted we don't always agree on things and we don't always get along but we have one thing in common.  That is our love of this game.

Since we have so many talented members out here that are doing everything from skins to sounds I think maybe we should try and work together a bit more.  We have many great people out here who help the skinners when it comes to finding the profiles needed to make skins.  We also have many guys who are extremely talented at making skins themselves.  We have the resource center available to us via the Skin Department.  

I'm kind of surprised to see that there really aren't that many templates availble at the Skin Department.  I know I have a ton of panel line references for the majority of the aircraft in AH.  If I've got this many I'm pretty sure others do too.  Which would lead me to think that there has to be alot of basic templates being made.

What I would suggest is since some folks are extremely talented and we are all wanting the same thing for the game we could be actually working more like a small art department.  Some folks could be knocking out panel line charts for each and every aircraft.  Mean while some folks could be working on basic paint schemes that would be used during WWII for different units and the weathering.  Others could be knocking out custom nose arts and basic markings like insignias and such.  Then in the end we could combine all our efforts to make a basic set of skin packages.  

I just see alot of talent here and alot of people who have alot resource information just sitting there waiting to be tapped.  If we combined our efforts I think it would be beneficial to us all and to the game as a whole.  We could make a list of things that are needed to complete a particular project.  That would include basic paint schemes/weathering, panel lines, insignias, and stuff such as engine paintings seen through the front of the cowling.

[nopoop]

Originally posted by Cobra412
I'm kind of surprised to see that there really aren't that many templates availble at the Skin Department.

I'm not, and I'll tell ya why. Making a rivit and panel line templet is the most BORING, TEDIOUS time consuming job ever givin to any skinner. Making a templete is unending redos and checks, then adjust and check, check, adjust, check and adjust.

It is never ending and takes a tremendous amount of time to do. And it can never be "quite" right. If you enjoy doing them your weird

It might be selfish on my part but I'll share anything I do, lighting, weathering, bare metal painting and shading, paint selection, paint chips, screenshot selection. ANYTHING I know I'll share.

I'll give you what I know about making templets, how to put them together, so you don't make the mistakes I made.

But you won't get a templet from me, nor would I use someone elses.

Ya gotta do it yourself.

Sorta a right of passage

[Cobra412]

I know making panel line templates are extremely tedious.  Especially getting them to the point where they'll line up right both horizontally and vertically.  I use a mixture of Adobe 7 and Adobe Illustrator 8 to get my lines done.  It takes time importing from one to the other.  Then having to go into the game and seeing if they even lined up half way decent.  No one said it's an easy task to do.  If it were every airframe in AH would have a template by now.

That's why I feel that if the community as a whole worked together on this then it would help out alot.  Our WWII gurus could critique the intial panel line charts we plane to use.  To ensure they are correct for the airframe we want to put them on.  Once a template was done there could be a quality assurance area in the bbs that people could go to download the beta template and critique it.  If everything is kosher then the final panel line template would be considered complete and ready for main skin production use.  

Each skinner could be assigned a particular aircraft type.  They could even be assigned 2 depending on their abilities, available time and the expected work load of a particular airframe.  I've got panel line charts for almost 80% or more of the airframes in AH.  It just seems they are going to waste sitting here not being used.  It also seems that people only do what are their favorite planes.  That's not bad but the rest of the aircraft that need updating are being ignored.  I know folks don't wanna waste their time on a goon, val, ect... But that doesn't mean they don't need help.  It's about making the game better for us all.  I mean IL2 has a ton of dedicated skinners.  They all work as a team when it comes to making the game they play better.

[nopoop]

I understand Cobra, but that sounds like a job not a hobby.

I'm silly, I do a skin because I need too. Sorta like writing, I write when I need to.

If I do either without the need, it shows, the passion is absent. I haven't written anything in about a year, haven't skinned in half that. I didn't have the fire, the need.

But as I said I'm weird that way..not to mention the deathly fear of sleeping in a bed that has a "space" underneath it.

[Cobra412]

Your right.  Disregard this post.

[oboe]

Its easy to see your heart is in the right place, Cobra - no faulting you for that!   Custom skins absolutely make the game for me.

I have a couple of thoughts - first, it at times seems to me we are already stressing HTC's system for handling custom skins (receiving, reviewing, getting in the hopper, etc) --  even as a collection of skinners working basically independently.   If we got the factory method involved and really started cranking them out, well I think HTC might be buried.   They might regret having implemented the whole idea

The other thing is, although there are aspects to skinning which aren't as rewarding as others, I feel like I need to do the whole thing myself.   I fight through the stuff I'm not so good at, and look forward to the parts I enjoy.   Its part of my reward for the  creative effort - seeing a work that's all yours, in the game, being used by other players.    

I happened on a pair of enemy 51Bs lifting of the runway together the other day - and as I dove on them and rapidly closed the range, I noted they were flying my 357th FG skin!   Well, I got so flustered (or did I have a narcissistic moment?) I forgot myself and accidentally rammed the guy.   But it was worth it to see a pair of pilots enjoy something that I created.

Anyway that's just my 2 cents.  

[SELECTOR]

i agree with nopoop ,, panel line are the most boring part of skinnning, and i think everyone should take time to do this job for themselves..
after all if a template is posted which is wrong then who will come along to fix it..
 i know a lot of skin panel lines have been taken from the il2 game, and i can tell you one thing 90% of them are so wrong..

what you need to do is reserch the plane..

[Cobra412]

Selector I don't have to research anything.  I've done my research and have over 55 different panel line charts and they aren't from IL2.  It's as I said previously, disregard this post.  I can already see that I may have misjudged the "community" so this thread was a waste of time.

[nopoop]

Jeez cobra it's discussion for cripes sakes.

Am I suppose to agree with you because it's your idea ??

I enjoy and share everything I learn. Give props to the guys doing the stuff, ask and answer questions and continually learn the craft. There's guys doing some great stuff here. A little corner of AH.

I enjoy it for what it is. A little place where we can share our creations, our passions and learn from each other.

I'd say you did misjudge the "community".

You just don't "see" what your looking at.

[Cobra412]

Nopoop I didn't figure many if any would see how this would help the community.  I also didn't expect anyone to even say "yeah lets give it a try".  I also don't doubt you help some folks out. That isn't my issue though.

I do take offense to someone making an accusation that some people don't do research before they make their skins.  It's obvious though he missed the part about ensuring the panel charts that were to be used were deemed authentic by this community.  I also find it rather selfish that someone would comment on making the panel lines yourself because it's your job or as you stated a right of passage.  I could have sworn this was about the community and not us as individuals.  There aren't many of us folks that make skins anyway.  So it's not like we are talking about making templates for the whole community to dabble with.  It's for those of us who do make the skins on a regular basis and trying to help out each other so we can make the game better for everyone.

If he had read the whole post and understood it then maybe ignorant comments such as these wouldn't have been said.  It's obvious he missed the whole quality control part.  He must have also missed the whole bit about it being a team thing and so we can make the game better for the community.  It seems I was actually thinking before posting where as someone else wasn't.

[United]

Cobra, I don't think he was referring to you directly.  I think all he was stating was that some people (not you) copy panel line/rivet layouts from IL2 and don't do the research themselves to make sure the skins are accurate.

It didn't seem to me that he was taking a jab at you directly.


I agree with nopoop and oboe, though.  I get much better satisfaction knowing that I made the entire plane, not just the paint scheme or whatever.

[Cobra412]

No worries.  I'll just keep working on a bunch of templates from the drawings I have.  Whenever I get a chance and feel like it I'll kick out a skin here and there.

[United]

By all means do. I'm sure there are many other skinners who absolutely love templates.  I use them every once in a while for comparison reasons, and if yours are as accurate as you stated, then I will use yours as well.

[nopoop]

Originally posted by Cobra412
Nopoop I didn't figure many if any would see how this would help the community.

Cobra I see exactly how it would help the community.

Your taking what's being put out by the skinners now as something less than what it "could" be.

In some ways that rubs me wrong. Sorry.

There's no retirement here, no dental plan, it's not a job.

We do what we do because we want to. The benifits reaped going to each individual skinner seeing his creation ingame, the other skinner's encourgement, suggestions and the community as a whole.

The last thing I need personally is for some sort of "plan" initiated with chores for each to do.

That's not what it's about.

[Kev367th]

Once I have finished with the template I usually make it available.
E.g once this next batch of skins are released I will be posting the 38G, J and L templates as I have done as many as I am going to do, and if I can make it easier for the next guy I have no problem.
Actually me and Oboe worked together on the Lightning 'Headhunter' skins so although they are for 3 different models they all started with the same base colors and stripe widths (were applicable).

Think some time ago I suggested we come up with a set of RGB values for colors. I know that paint weathers and fades but at least this would give a form of consistency to the overall finished skins.