Rear View Mirrors?

[stantond]

Any chance rear view mirrors will be added to AH2?  I know they were not in any previous variants, but a lot of WW2 aircraft did have them so they would be realistic.  Specifically, the Spit9 had a rear view mirror (The one at the Smithsonian Insitute does anyway) and the venerable F4U-1 and -4 had them on the canopy.  I think the BF109 at the Smithsonian does as well, but I am not certain. Just curious.  I think it would be a cool addition, although implementing them might be challenging.



Regards,

Malta

[thebest1]

way to laggy to put them in. IL2 has them, barly anyone uses them cause there to lagyt

[stantond]

Ok,

How about this idea.   Have a view which would represent what is seen if looking through a rear view mirror.  That would not cause any more lag, and in fact would have less lag since only partial (if any) plane graphics would be in the view.  

I want a better six view.  Combat pilots wanted one too, and came up with rear view mirrors.  Most WW2 planes had no rear view without something like a rear view mirror.

It seems to me including the 'rear view mirror' view as part of the hat settings would be quite natural.  A scan of the views could be made similar to how pilots scanned, but without the peripheral vision of course.  Padlock is included in AH.  What's one more view for those who wish to use it?


Regards,

Malta

[g00b]

Good idea Malta

g00b

[JB73]

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=178674&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

[stantond]

Heh,

Yep, searched for rear view mirrors before I made (yet another) post on them.  For what it's worth, I am not a 'creative games design genius'.  Although I am observant.

The idea of a separate rear view mirror view comes from the game "Sptifre 40" produced by the Avalon Hill Game Company for the Commodore 64, circa 1985.  Not such a cool game actually.   "Ace of Aces" by Accolade, which was a WW2 Mosquito fighter/bomber flight simulator for the C64 was much better.  Since the idea came out in 1985 does that make it a classic, or does that only apply to cars?


Regards,

Malta

[Kweassa]

Malta, a 3D environment we see in the monitor, is quite different from what we choose to perceive. When you see a 'reflection' in the mirror, in 3D modelling that's not a 'reflection' at all. It's a separate 3D model that is created to give the 'illusion' that a 'reflection' has formed.

 For instance, if somebody sees three bogeys chasing him in his rear view mirror, his system has to create 3D models for;

1) his own plane
2) three enemy planes that are actually behind him
3) three additional models to act as if they are reflections, in his mirror

 So instead of total 4 models, one's system has to deal with 7. The more bogeys around and this workload can easily double or triple. Add in the 'pseudo-reflections' of other 3D terrain objects such as buildings and etc.. and the workload becomes immense - there's no way a low-spec system can handle that kind of load. Even a decent one starts to slow down. Only something like a Pentium 4 3Ghz and 1 gigabytes of ram with state-of-the-art graphics card can ever manage something like that.

 The odds are, most of the people will turn it off and not use it at all, because it effects performance so much.

 It's a good idea, but there are serious problems with it.

[g00b]

Kweasa, a "mirror view" would take no more power than any of the existing views. It's only the picture-in-picture stuff that adds to the load.

g00b

[Kweassa]

I admit a 'mirror-view' would certainly be a work-around for the problem. It would basically be a cosmetically-altered 6-view with the left and right side switched.

 However, then the problem is that it clashes the agenda(or, the agenda I THINK HTC might have, concerning cockpit objects) that any action done in the cockpit is done real-time, real-situation. We have no separate instrument views, no HUDs. Basically there is no supplementary, 'separate' view to aid the in-cockpit management - everything that is to be done in the cockpit is done in the cockpit(except the damage reports). If you want to look at the mirror you should look up and look up at the mirror.

 A separate mirror-view would not add any more immersion as it would simply be considered the same thing as the 6-view for most part.

[stantond]

I never meant to imply modeling any reflections.  A Commodore 64 computer used a 6510 processor with 64 kilobytes (KB) of memory.  Unless you program microcontrollers, those terms are not used today.  In case anyone is curious, it takes 1024 kilobytes (KB) to make one megabyte (MB).

This concept has a separate view (the simplification being that you are focused on the rear view mirror) and would just show the images "as seen".  It would be a separate view, much like the 'up' or 'down' views but with limited (or no) head positioning.  I won't claim it is real life, but rather an abstraction to work within the limits of  a viewing system.  

Note that this is not a 'demand' or any other such statement.  Not everyone would want to use such a view.  If nothing else, it would incorporate the use of rear view mirrors used in the planes modeled, which some people may appreciate.  I would appreciate the extra view.



Regards,

Malta

[Kweassa]

And how would that be any different from our 6views which very very generously offer a panoramic scan of the 6O'c area in the 'Linda Blair' fashion, in most of the planes?

[stantond]

This point of this thread and post is to suggest improvements or feedback to AH.  You like the game the way it is?  Fine.  Have at it.  

I am interested in some level of realism.  The "Linda Blair" views are fine for most, and I use them because that's all there is.   Ten snap views are in AH, an eight position hat switch with up and down views.  A padlock view is also included.  I am suggesting a rear view mirror view.  Currently in AH, the six o'clock view in all planes is not the same.  Those planes without a good six o'clock could use a rear view mirror view.  The pilots, field crews and factory added rear view mirrors to planes which did not have a good six o'clock view.   Those interested in scenerios may want six views that are not "Linda Blair".

However, I expect there are more important issues to resolve.  This is a minor enhancement to the game.  A "Linda Blair" with some rudder kick will provide as good or a better six view than a rear view mirror.


Regards,

Malta

[Kweassa]

So having a separate 'mirror view' to click into during flight is 'more real'?

 How much more 'real' is it, as compared to, let's say, the AW-ish 'messy screen' cockpit with all the instruments laid out everywhere on the screen?

 Or, will this 'mirror view' be present, let's say, on top of the screen during flight? If it be that case then it's basically the same thing as having a rear-view mirror modelled, and effects performance directly.

 I for one, actually like the idea of rear-view mirrors.

 But I don't want to see a separate supplementary screen implemented in the game - it hurts the 'everything in cockpit is worked in the cockpit' principle. Basically it's the same thing as F3 externals in principle.

 The only way a rear-view mirror can work 'realistically' is by actually modelling them on the top canopy frame, which we will have to look up and see from the cockpit, without a separate view - and this, hurts performance.

[MAILMAN]

way to laggy to put them in. IL2 has them, barly anyone uses them cause there to lagyt

Don't know why you would make this statement.  Everyone I know uses the rear view mirrors in IL-2 and has done so since its inception.  If you have good enough graphics card, enough ram and CPU power there is no lag.

Biggest reason in AH that I don't fly the F6F, P-47 Razor Backs, FM-2 or any other plane with extremely limited vision is because there are no mirrors installed in the planes that actually had them.  FWIW production Corsairs had three rear view mirrors.  All three were installed on the windscreen portion of the cockpit on the framing.  One  on top and one on each side.  My hats off to those who can fight successfully in the planes blind to their dead astern area.  I still am amazed that even though they can't see the bandit directly behind them they know exactly when to make their break turn everytime.

[Lusche]

Don't know why you would make this statement.

And he will most probably noxt explain it, as Stantond has not logged into this forum for many years.
You just replied to a 9 years old thread...