Iraq - Italian hostage freed, then shot

[Otto]

Originally posted by GScholz

Why is it only US troops that seem to be involved in incidents like these? Statistically shouldn't the British and even Poles have F'ed up a couple of times by now?

1) We'd have to put the Poles and the British in the middle of Bagdad before we could answer that question.

2) How do you know that U.S. troops F'ed up..?

[genozaur]

Originally posted by GScholz
So you're saying that a foreign intelligence agent transporting a freed hostage to an American airbase is not something the checkpoint should have been informed of? Stupid.

Why is it only US troops that seem to be involved in incidents like these? Statistically shouldn't the British and even Poles have F'ed up a couple of times by now?

What I say is the usual lax of security precautions on the part of the americans when CIA does not like the things their allies are doing.

[Raider179]

from what I heard today she says it wasnt a checkpoint but soldiers on patrol.

However, Italian magistrate Franco Ionta said Sgrena disagreed with the military account.

"It wasn't a checkpoint, but a patrol that shot as soon [as] they lit us up with a spotlight. We didn't know where the bullets were coming from. We had not met other checkpoints before. Our car was absolutely not traveling at high speed," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/03/05/iraq.main/?section=cnn_world

also heard they paid 1 million for her.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Raider179
from what I heard today she says it wasnt a checkpoint but soldiers on patrol.

However, Italian magistrate Franco Ionta said Sgrena disagreed with the military account.

"It wasn't a checkpoint, but a patrol that shot as soon [as] they lit us up with a spotlight. We didn't know where the bullets were coming from. We had not met other checkpoints before. Our car was absolutely not traveling at high speed," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/03/05/iraq.main/?section=cnn_world

also heard they paid 1 million for her.

Wonder what they'll buy with the money?

[SOB]

A whole CRAPLOAD of paddleball games?!

[Gixer]

Think it's hardly suprising that they got shot up by US troops, they don't exactly have the greatest record through history when it comes to shooting friendlies. Always reminds me of.

When then Germans start shooting the Brits woudl take cover, when the Brits start shooting the Germans would take cover and when the US starts shooting everyone takes cover.


...-Gixer

[Sox62]

Interesting how many people automatically assume the woman's story is gospel,and the rest is a screw up,cover up,take your pick.

 It's amazing that every single car that approaches the checkpoint isn't blasted...unless the woman's story isn't 100% accurate.

[Otto]

Originally posted by Gixer
Think it's hardly suprising that they got shot up by US troops, they don't exactly have the greatest record through history when it comes to shooting friendlies. Always reminds me of.

When then Germans start shooting the Brits woudl take cover, when the Brits start shooting the Germans would take cover and when the US starts shooting everyone takes cover.


...-Gixer

In New Zealand, the Sheep don't take cover.  They just run as fast as they can screaming "Daddy's coming...."

[Naso]

Originally posted by Sox62
It's amazing that every single car that approaches the checkpoint isn't blasted...

Well, in this case the car was full of westerners, not of expendable Iraqis.

Anyway, I can understand the fear of the soldiers, I may do the same, in a similar situation, shoot first, then ask, too dangerous to let them come too close.

BTW, seem that it was'nt a checkpoint.

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by Naso
Well, in this case the car was full of westerners, not of expendable Iraqis.

Anyway, I can understand the fear of the soldiers, I may do the same, in a similar situation, shoot first, then ask, too dangerous to let them come too close.

BTW, seem that it was'nt a checkpoint.

how do you know it wasn't a checkpoint?  There seem to be several versions of the story , how do you know the one you choose to believe is the true one?

[Sox62]

Originally posted by Naso
BTW, seem that it was'nt a checkpoint.

Possibly.We'll know soon enough.In both CNN articles that is what she claims.That doesn't automatically make it true.

But both CNN articles state that "Multi-National Forces opened fire on a vehicle APPROACHING a checkpoint at a high speed."

They also state that "U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to  stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."


She claims they were fired upon as soon as the patrol lit them up with a spotlight.

First;were they actually fired at,or were those just warning shots?

Second;when the driver didn't stop,they didn't try to kill the occupants,they shot at the engine block.(They claim at least)

Tragic,yes,but since these soldiers have had car bomb after car bomb blown up in an attempt to kill them as well as Iraqi's,I just think we should give them the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts are out.

[Naso]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
how do you know it wasn't a checkpoint?  There seem to be several versions of the story , how do you know the one you choose to believe is the true one?

I have used the word "seem" to express my ignorance of the truth.

Maybe I have choosen the wrong words, help me to learn some more english (no irony here, i'm really asking if there was a better expression to use).

I have yet to choose a version, but I had to point that there's another version than the checkpoint's one.... just that.

[Naso]

Originally posted by Sox62
Possibly.We'll know soon enough.

In both CNN articles that is what she claims.That doesn't automatically make it true.

But both CNN articles state that "Multi-National Forces opened fire on a vehicle APPROACHING a checkpoint at a high speed."

They also state that "U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to  stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."


She claims they were fired upon as soon as the patrol lit them up with a spotlight.

Sincerely, what she claim is of little interest for me, for various reasons and we can talk about it later.

What really bother me, is that the surviving agents claim the same version (with the exception of the "deliberate killing attempt" part, that is almost umbelievable).

First;were they actually fired at,or were those just warning shots?

Second;when the driver didn't stop,they didn't try to kill the occupants,they shot at the engine block.(They claim at least)

Tragic,yes,but since these soldiers have had car bomb after car bomb blown up in an attempt to kill them as well as Iraqi's,I just think we should give them the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts are out.

This is what I... we all, I guess, want to know, and we have too few informations.

[Sox62]

Agreed.We all want to know.

I'm not buying the deliberate killing attempt though.I'm pretty sure if the soldiers intent was to kill the occupants of the car,none of them would be alive to make that claim.

[rabbidrabbit]

OK,

To wrap this up...

 No one here really knows what actually happened.

We all seem to agree that things did not work out as well as it should have.

It's too early to point fingers one way or another since "blame" is dependent on knowing the facts, which we do not.

She is exploiting the death of a much better person than her to forward her personal interests.  Naso, I think you will find that is the main point here.