Author Topic: marijuana  (Read 2999 times)

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #150 on: March 10, 2005, 02:41:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DoctorYO
Eagler Joined BBS Mar 2001.....

..

That will cook your brain also...



:cool:


DoctorYo


true
but legally and reversable :)
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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Offline spothq

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« Reply #151 on: March 10, 2005, 02:52:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
Once again, I'll invite those of you who think marijuana is victimless to come on up to Mendocino County in August-September and you can see just how detremental sanctioned marijuana cultivation can be to a community.

One can legally grow 25 plants up here- 50 if you register as a "caregiver." That means between you and your wife you can grow 100 plants in your backyard- and the only people it's benefited up here are the nurseries and people who sell fence boards.

The crime rate for home invasions and burgeleries (sp) went through the roof last year- the police officers' lament was that they didn't have time for police work because they were too busy answering pot related calls.

Also there were several murders, attempted murders and assaults, all related to pot.

We've attracted a culture of low lifes who rent a home, grow a crop, maybe cook up some meth.... and steal anything they can get their hands on to support them til their crop comes in.

Our children grow up seeing this general disdain for society's rules and conclude they don't have to live within the rules of society, so they're more apt to violate other laws also.

Personally I don't care what anyone smokes, drinks, shoots or snorts...just don't fool yourself and say it's a victimless crime cause it's not.... not for those of us who live in the middle of sanctioned pot growing.


That is an extreme though =) you can find one in every case. Mendocino is an example of what happens when people wait too long to come to their senses.

Yes they are more proactive when it comes to common sense, but you know that the last 20 years people have seen that area as a magnet, and eventually people will see it as a "job", then the competition drives the evil side into the mix and you have the mess up there that is mendocino. Unfortunately its still related to the lack of real control over the issue, criminalizing it hasn't helped anyone except the speech writers and law enforcement budgets.

Offline mora

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« Reply #152 on: March 10, 2005, 03:14:30 PM »
Airhead, you can only blame prohibition of pot for that. Because it's illegal the markets are in the hands of criminals. Just look back some 70 years and you'll see how prohibition of alcohol affected crime rates. Of course there's always crime associated if the business is illegal. The sex industry is another example.

Offline Airhead

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« Reply #153 on: March 10, 2005, 04:58:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mora
Airhead, you can only blame prohibition of pot for that. Because it's illegal the markets are in the hands of criminals. Just look back some 70 years and you'll see how prohibition of alcohol affected crime rates. Of course there's always crime associated if the business is illegal. The sex industry is another example.


Read again- it's the legality that has caused my community its problems, not the illegality. Hey, I'm just posting my observations about what happens when a community decides to sanction a previouslly criminal enterprise- it's not your brain that rots on pot, it's your community.

Offline Lazerus

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« Reply #154 on: March 10, 2005, 05:06:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
Read again- it's the legality that has caused my community its problems, not the illegality.


That is 180* backwards. The illegality is causing those criminals to behave in the manner you describe.

I can't think of one instance where freedom of choice to do as you please and not restrict the freedom of others is a bad thing. That's all this argument boils down to.

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #155 on: March 10, 2005, 05:12:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lazerus
That is 180* backwards. The illegality is causing those criminals to behave in the manner you describe.

I can't think of one instance where freedom of choice to do as you please and not restrict the freedom of others is a bad thing. That's all this argument boils down to.


These are two independant arguments.  You can't really argue the justness of the crime because of the injustness of the law.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #156 on: March 10, 2005, 05:20:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
Read again- it's the legality that has caused my community its problems, not the illegality. Hey, I'm just posting my observations about what happens when a community decides to sanction a previouslly criminal enterprise- it's not your brain that rots on pot, it's your community.


Agree except it's the illegality in the surrounding communities that contributes to the problem.
sand

Offline Lazerus

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« Reply #157 on: March 10, 2005, 07:40:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
These are two independant arguments.  You can't really argue the justness of the crime because of the injustness of the law.


The crimes are unjust. I was making no attempt to make excuses for the criminals, only pointing out the fallacy of his logic.

They are two independant points. Am I allowed only one per post??

Actually, they are interdependant. Freedom to excercise personal choice in matters that do not effect others is the point. The choice to grow MJ has no effect on anyone. The choice to steal and vandalize others property has nothing to do with it.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2005, 07:47:36 PM by Lazerus »

Offline mora

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« Reply #158 on: March 11, 2005, 03:09:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
Read again- it's the legality that has caused my community its problems, not the illegality. Hey, I'm just posting my observations about what happens when a community decides to sanction a previouslly criminal enterprise- it's not your brain that rots on pot, it's your community.


If you create a safe haven in a middle of a place where it's verboten this is what surely happens. I believe 100% of what you are saying. A legalization has to be nation wide to avoid these problems and the growing and distribution should be goverment controlled.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #159 on: March 11, 2005, 08:29:10 AM »
mora... I have never bought that arguement... It is like saying that gun control doesn't work because the "safe" places are surrounded by places where people have rights... It is like saying that communism fails because the whole world isn't commie.

What should happen is that those who want the feedom to smoke pot will gravitate to the place and drive up the property values so high that the lowlifes won't be able to afford to live there except the real organized ones (of which airhead is not talking about).

That is not what happens... the "freedom" to have potheads and their behavior in an area drives property values down and attracts even more bottom of the barrel criminals.   Pot heads don't even make good criminals.

lazs

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #160 on: March 11, 2005, 08:32:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lazerus
The crimes are unjust. I was making no attempt to make excuses for the criminals, only pointing out the fallacy of his logic.

They are two independant points. Am I allowed only one per post??

Actually, they are interdependant. Freedom to excercise personal choice in matters that do not effect others is the point. The choice to grow MJ has no effect on anyone. The choice to steal and vandalize others property has nothing to do with it.


I agree.    I must have misunderstood your post.  I thought you were condoning criminal behavior because the law was unjust.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #161 on: March 11, 2005, 08:38:38 AM »
I don't consider anyone who grows, buys or smokes pot or any other drug a criminal... the laws are against human rights.   If you sell illegal drugs I consider you a criminal or one who causes criminal activity and therefore affects me.

lazs

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #162 on: March 11, 2005, 08:42:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I don't consider anyone who grows, buys or smokes pot or any other drug a criminal... the laws are against human rights.   If you sell illegal drugs I consider you a criminal or one who causes criminal activity and therefore affects me.

lazs


I consider anyone who lacks enough respect for our nations laws to obey them while working to change them a criminal.  You don't have to like the law, but you should respect the system.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #163 on: March 11, 2005, 09:03:07 AM »
two different things..  If he gets caught then he is a criminal no problem with that.   I consider the law to be wrong tho.   If all a person does is smoke pot so far as criminality goes... well... He ain't gonna cause me to get all rightious and asking for blood.. I would even lie to keep him from being punished... just like people lie about speeding and seatbelts.

Bad laws make us all less respectful of the law.

lazs

Offline Airhead

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« Reply #164 on: March 11, 2005, 09:49:32 AM »
I don't care if people want to smoke pot or not as long as they realize it's not a victimless crime.