Author Topic: America's Top Ace was a HO'er?! (Read 1709 times)

TBolt A-10 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2005, 07:38:08 PM »

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Originally posted by cav58d

check 12 =)

Stang · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2005, 09:06:36 PM »

Doesn't the word tactic by definition mean you are using an advanced and thought out way of maneuvering your aircraft to gain maximum advantage on your enemy while limiting youself to the least ammount of peril? A straight on ho shot is anything but this. As Slappy said, it's like playing roulette. Real life ho's were most likely high angle deflection shots. Would any right minded pilot give the enemy a chance to shoot him, especially in the case of Bong, when all he would have to do is go past merge and his P-38 would have a huge advantage over whatever his Japanese counterpart was flying? I think not. This is just an attempt by those that habitually ho to historically validate their constant lack of acm's.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2005, 02:01:11 AM »

Bong felt he was a lousy shot, so I doubt he'd go for a true HO where the enemy plane had a real shot at him, since he felt most were better shots than he was. I figure he was talking about taking a high percentage shot from in front of the 3-9 line, not going dead level in a joust.

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2005, 02:36:55 AM »

Any tactic that enables you to shoot the adversary down and survive yourself, is valid.

I take the shot whenever I can.

But I'm not stupid enough to fly a mile lining up to the enemy - usually both go down on shots like that.

Elfie · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2005, 02:44:52 AM »

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Originally posted by SlapShot
Still not a bad number when you consider US pilots were only allowed I believe 50 missions, where the Germans flew for years and swatted every newbie out of the sky and tons of un-escorted bombers. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

The numbers are impressive but misleading. I don't think those guys were any better pilots than some of the US aces ... especially Bong.

As far as the top German aces go, Hartmann was a relative newcomer. He wasnt in combat when Germany launched the attack into the USSR. By the time he got in combat the Soviet planes and pilots were getting better. The longer he was there, the better the opposition got. It also got far more numerous. Hartmann described furballs where the Germans were outnumbered severely. Yet he continued to score kills, at a fairly rapid pace. Hartmann also scored kills on 7 or 8 Mustangs over Romania iirc.

Hartmann imo, is in a class of his own. The other German aces like Galland, Krupinski, Gall etc, had far more stick time than he did. One of Hartmann's biggest strengths was his superb gunnery skill. He did prefer to get as close as possible before firing though.

ATA · « **Reply #20 on:** March 06, 2005, 03:41:53 AM »

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Originally posted by SlapShot
Still not a bad number when you consider US pilots were only allowed I believe 50 missions, where the Germans flew for years and swatted every newbie out of the sky and tons of un-escorted bombers. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

True
Apart from these 62 victories, Ivan Kozhedub also was forced to shoot down two U.S. P-51 Mustangs that mistakenly attacked his La-7 on one occasion. Both these P-51 losses have been verified by USAAF sources.

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 06, 2005, 05:50:45 AM »

US bomber crews liked Bong because he was always there in the middle of the heat.

Bong always praised the bomber crews of their bravery sorties having no freedom than to stay in formation.

Bong was a symphatic guy who turned into a devil up there .

Anyway he the highest scoring twin engined fighter pilot in the world.

ATA · « **Reply #22 on:** March 06, 2005, 05:59:41 AM »

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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Anyway he the highest scoring twin engined fighter pilot in the world.

Were there any other twin engine fighters?

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 06, 2005, 06:05:05 AM »

There where only not so succesfull as the lightning.

How about the 110 for instance?

GScholz · « **Reply #24 on:** March 06, 2005, 06:34:39 AM »

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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Anyway he the highest scoring twin engined fighter pilot in the world.

Actually that would be Heinz-Wolfgang Schnauffer. He survived the war with 121 kills marked on the rudder of his Bf110G.

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 06, 2005, 06:40:04 AM »

shooting gliders and double deckers doesn't count

seriously, impressive on the 110.

ok formulate it otherwise

It was the highest scoring twinboomed engined fighter pilot.

now don't come up with some uber fw189 scoring lw pilot

GScholz · « **Reply #26 on:** March 06, 2005, 06:44:40 AM »

*lol*

java45 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 06, 2005, 09:03:56 AM »

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Originally posted by Stang
Doesn't the word tactic by definition mean you are using an advanced and thought out way of maneuvering .......... This is just an attempt by those that habitually ho to historically validate their constant lack of acm's.

This is no more that sort of attempt then the attempt at those who constantly complain about the HO to force others into "their own" way of flying eg seeking the 6 shot as opposed to an HO.

Bottom line......we all have opinions and no opinion is more valid then another ( as long as it is stated as an opinion and not a fact ) There will be HOs, my suggestion " live with it " just as there will be vulchers and I have to live with that

culero · « **Reply #28 on:** March 06, 2005, 09:51:45 AM »

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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
One constant in humanity is the penchant for the insecure to prop themselves up by demeaning others. One way is to whine about HO's especially when they lose one.

In my book a gunnery solution is a gunnery solution. I simply prefer the more cowardly approach of acheiving a gunnery solution when my opponent can not.

Hear hear.

culero

SlapShot · « **Reply #29 on:** March 06, 2005, 10:05:49 AM »

I simply prefer the more cowardly approach of acheiving a gunnery solution when my opponent can not.

This, of course, is not an HO. If your opponent can't get a guns solution on you at the same time you have a guns solution, then there can be no HO (as we know it in AH).