potential solution for "offensive (or "objectionable") skins"

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

I see the potential for a solution. Since there is an option to disable skins, why not simply add an option to disable certain skins?

We could have two classes of skins. One class that is universally acceptable. A second class that is "possibly offensive or objectionable to some". You could have class 2 skins disabled by default, and it would be a user option to enable them.

Call them "G rated skins" and "R rated skins", and the R rated skins would be disabled by default, and a warning message could be made stating that you enable R rated historic skins at your own risk, and you may be offended by them.

I realize it is an added amount of work for HTC, but maybe it's worth it. After all, to the hardcore long term player, it isn't just a game, it's history as well, and history we find important.

Also, I think HTC has little to worry about anyway. With what is included in so many games these days, I cannot possibly see any way that Aces High could be in any more danger than some of the other games out there. I also think the game should suffer for the "easily offended". Nor should HTC.

[United]

Not a half bad idea.  Perhaps skinners could rate their planes in the info.txt file as acceptable or possibly offensive. This way, perhaps the work loadout would be lessened for HTC.

[sullie363]

I like the idea.  

I find it so funny how paranoid HTC is about skins (not talking about swastikas) when the game has, what could be considered, much more offensive material coming from other players in game.  Anybody who might be offended by a naked chick or the middle finger wouldn't be playing this game since they wouldn't survive range channel.  And if they are, I would imagine they are the extreme minority.  And even if they were offended, I would find it hard to believe they would quit the game.

Still waiting to see what comes of Itsy Bitsy II, now proven not to be a flipping of the bird.

[oboe]

I don't think paranoid is a fair word to use, but they do try to stay on top of it.   Its a small company and I don't blame them for trying to be sure as few people as possible are offended.   The swastika issue is a legal one, different from taste issues regarding naked women or obscene gestures.    Remember this is their livelihood, so they have to take this issue very seriously.

I think the problem with Itsy Bitsy is although the gesture has been proven not to be the obscene "FU", would a reasonable person assume it was the 'bird'?   And would a reasonable person be offended by it?

[Shane]

i still maintain the only place you'll actually be able to get a clear view of the nose art is by taking a screenshot after zooming in thru the use of film viewer - or offline extrernal mode.


sure as hell can't see nose art very well from hangar views. and in-game flight it's practically impossible to get suffiently close.

[killnu]

agree with shane...eek did i just say that.

[Shane]

everyone does sooner or later.

[sullie363]

Originally posted by oboe
I don't think paranoid is a fair word to use, but they do try to stay on top of it.

Yeah I agree.  I was slightly intoxicated last night

[Kweassa]

Just find a clever workaround.

 Like, change the finger that's sticking out.

 Any skinner that meets the need to depict obscene/politically incorrect/illegal/offensive material always runs into the same problem of "how do I make it look historic and accurate as possible, when in fact it can't ever be, according to current rules?"

 Few solutions to choose from, but its always either; a) delete it, or b) replace it. I don't think you can expect the developers to do something about it, because really, they don't have any obligations to do so. It'd be nice if they would do something about it, but it's highly unlikely something like that will ever happen.


 So;

1) if a 'finger' is the problem, change the finger

2) if it's a nudity problem, give the girl(I assume it's a girl..) either lingerie or swimsuits. Usually works.

3) if it's a swastika problem, delete it

4) if it's a word problem, like bi*ch, fu*ker, Jew, Kraut, Jap, Nazi, Nig*er, etc etc.. best consult the developers directly if that particular word would be acceptable.

[6GunUSMC]

The political correctness madness has GOT to stop somewhere! geeeeeez

[Kweassa]

It has stopped - at this point.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Just find a clever workaround.

 Like, change the finger that's sticking out.

 Any skinner that meets the need to depict obscene/politically incorrect/illegal/offensive material always runs into the same problem of "how do I make it look historic and accurate as possible, when in fact it can't ever be, according to current rules?"

 Few solutions to choose from, but its always either; a) delete it, or b) replace it. I don't think you can expect the developers to do something about it, because really, they don't have any obligations to do so. It'd be nice if they would do something about it, but it's highly unlikely something like that will ever happen.


 So;

1) if a 'finger' is the problem, change the finger

2) if it's a nudity problem, give the girl(I assume it's a girl..) either lingerie or swimsuits. Usually works.

3) if it's a swastika problem, delete it

4) if it's a word problem, like bi*ch, fu*ker, Jew, Kraut, Jap, Nazi, Nig*er, etc etc.. best consult the developers directly if that particular word would be acceptable.

What you propose is a complete contradiction to the historical requirements for the skins. To have all sorts of supporting evidence required to submit a skin, but then to turn around and modify the skin so that it does not match the real skin is a contradiction. It's absurd. Why bother go through all the trouble to make a skin historically accurate, and provide evidence of the accuracy, and then modify the skin so it is no longer accurate?

[Kweassa]

What you propose is a complete contradiction to the historical requirements for the skins. To have all sorts of supporting evidence required to submit a skin, but then to turn around and modify the skin so that it does not match the real skin is a contradiction. It's absurd. Why bother go through all the trouble to make a skin historically accurate, and provide evidence of the accuracy, and then modify the skin so it is no longer accurate?

 Apparently, our freedom of expression is limited by the fact that such freedom should not hurt, or be offensive to others. In some cases, like historical documentations or texts, such freedom is deemed important in regards to the specific historic purposes, and is tolerated.

 Unfortunately, a 'game' does not receive such amnesty from the wary eyes of the public, or some governments.
 
 So basically, a commercial gaming company is not gonna risk anything further than the current boundaries, not to mention us skinners are the ones who are asking our works to be put in the game - its an honor, to say it out loud.

 Does it benefit the game?

 Yes, ofcourse.

 But does HTC really need to bend so much and make such compensations so that we can draw in every small detail which might contain obscene/unacceptable material?

 No. They got no obligations to such.

 So, as a skinner, what are you gonna do? I skinned a lot of Luftwaffe aircraft and frankly IMO, leaving the swastika out of the tail-end looks bare and wrong. I've tried to find alternative possible symbols or stand-ins to make it look right and also acceptable - and none of it worked.

 It's a compromise point.

 If you want at least the 'feel' of a certain picture on the plane, you compromise your devotion to detail and accept the legal/moral limitations implied on the skin - because, HTC is not gonna make a 'special case' concerning only some of the skins. Things have a way of getting complicated when more and more rules are written in.

 If you can't accept that compromise, then it's not allowed on-line for all of us to use.

 Would I love to see nudy skins and big-fat swear words on American planes? You bet. As much as I would love to see the swastikas on the planes that had them. Except, this is just something that falls under can't be done category. If you can't accept that, you probably won't be able to skin anything in any game.

[JB88]

naw.

[oboe]

Kweassa, thanks for your input - this was exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to start in the other thread, but its well enough here.

And thanks to Capt Virgil for his idea on ratings for skins.   Its a solution that might work, but I really wonder if HTC would feel its worth the time to implement.   Funny thing is, I bet all of the players would want the true, even if possibly offensive skins.

Kweassa's idea may be the most practical approach after all.   In the case of Itsy Bitsy II, changing the hand graphic to extend the index finger rather than the middle finger has minimal impact on the overall look of the skin at almost any distance (as opposed to removing the finger altogether and making it a fist).   Even in the photos and paintings of her, it can be a little difficult to determine which finger it is.   Only a very small group of people who are familiar with the plane and zoom in close on external view would be able to detect the error.   So perhaps in this case we are making a 'mountain' out of a 'mole hill'.   But to those who know, the error is glaring.

EDIT: I removed a comment that I thought sounded harsher than my feelings on the matter really  are....