Interesting Report on Saudi Hate Campaign

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Seagoon

Bosnia, Kosovo, and Uganda were all Ethnic/Tribal wars as was Rwanda and not specifically religious.  

They were using religious overtones to push agendas. Most (not all) religious wars are Ethnic by the way.

Bosnia= Serbian Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholic, Muslims Fragile peace is holding, due only to the presence of peacekeepers

Kosovo = Serbian Orthodox Christians & Muslims
Peace enforced by NATO peacekeepers.
There is convincing evidence of past mass murder by Yugoslavian government (mainly Serbian Orthodox Christians) against ethnic Albanians (mostly Muslim)  

Uganda = Animists, Christians, & Muslims
Christian rebels of the Lord's Resistance Army are conducting a civil war in the north of Uganda. Their goal is a Christian theocracy whose laws are based on the Ten Commandments. They abduct about 2,000 children a year who are enslaved and/or raped.

[Raider179]

Now anyway my point being you are arguing what is the worst of the two. Ok lets say I agree with you about Communism/Dictatorships killed more people. So that puts religion into what 2nd place on the death leaders board. To me #1 or #2 in this category doesnt matter. Both responsible for plenty of deaths of innocents. That was my point not the numbers.

[Raider179]

number of wars resulting from religious conflicts broke out as well as the Catholic governments tried to stop the spread of Protestantism in the country. Such attempts led to the civil war in France from 1562 to 1598 and a rebellion in the Netherlands between 1565 and 1648. Religion was a major issue in the fighting between Spain and England from 1585 to 1604. It was also a cause of the Thirty Years' War 1618 to 1648, which centered in Germany, that eventually involved all of the great nations of Europe halving its population.

The estimate of the death toll during the Inquisitions ranged worldwide from 600,000 to as high in the millions covering a span of almost six centuries.

 Victor Hugo estimated the number of the victims of the Inquisition at five million, it is said, and certainly the number was much greater than that if we take into account, as we should, the wives and husbands, the parents and children, the brothers and sisters, and other relatives of those tortured and slaughtered by the priestly institution. To these millions should properly be added the others killed in the wars precipitated in the attempt to fasten the Inquisition upon the people of various countries, as the Netherlands and Germany.

There were also more Inquistions than just the spanish one. but I digress.

[Seagoon]

Raider,

We could go round on this one till the cows come home.

Let's try to back up. Stagas original statement was a blanket indictment:

"Another reason why religion should be kept away from politic and government."
&
"Religious nutcases are a real threat to the peace all over the world."

My response was intended to make several points. 1) The alternative, an explicitly atheistic or anti-religious government doesn't exactly produce the desired Utopia. We've seen that in China, France, the Soviet Union, Cambodia, Vietnam, Cuba, North Korea, etc. In fact the atheists and nihilists are still ahead in the realm of megadeaths area no matter how you spin the numbers. Also, as unwilling as you are to admit that atheism in government inevitably produces megadeaths, I am equally unwilling to admit that Roman Catholic Government massacres of Protestants are an indication that Christianity produces massacres. Those governments who massacre their citizens are acting contrary to foundational principles of the Christian faith not in accordance with it (Romans 13 makes that clear) the same cannot be said of Communism or Wahabbism.
 
2) Not all religious nutcases are a threat to peace, for instance the Amish are religious nutcases are they a threat to peace? I'm a religious nutcase for that matter, and yet I subscribe to a confession that explicitly says: "It is the duty of civil magistrates to protect the person and good name of all their people, in such an effectual manner as that no person be suffered, either upon pretense of religion or of infidelity, to offer any indignity, violence, abuse, or injury to any other person whatsoever: and to take order, that all religious and ecclesiastical assemblies be held without molestation or disturbance." Westminster Confession of Faith 23.3
 
Which Ideaologies (atheistic or religious) truly are a threat therefore to peace worldwide? TOTALITARIAN ONES. Whethere they are Stalinists or Wahabbi Muslims. Their commitment to universally establish their one ideaology via pitiless violence and repression worldwide is what makes them truly dangerous.  

- SEAGOON

[Raider179]

Seagoon, I agree with you on a certain level, but however I do not agree that christianity used to preach peace either. Presently it might have seen the light and is trying to correct for past mistakes but it hasn't always been that way. Many people have been killed in god's name, and that is with all religions not just christianity. I also feel organized religion just makes it easier for one man to control another and feel justified about it. I will agree that there are nutcases everywhere but religion makes it easier for them to exploit their fellow man.

As for keeping religion away from politics it is to keep the exact situation from occuring that you describe. Violence and a threat to world peace. After all didn't people come to America so they could worship as they pleased? Not so they could choose 1 religion over another. That is why we NEED seperation of church and govenment.