Author Topic: M-26 Pershing  (Read 705 times)

Offline JB82

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M-26 Pershing
« on: March 17, 2005, 06:07:01 AM »
I request the M-26 Pershing Tank to have something that can compete with the Tiger Tank.

Offline Halo

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M-26 Pershing
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2005, 02:53:29 PM »
When and if, prepare to have it perked since apparently there were fewer of those in action than F-4UC's, i.e., late war issue in small numbers.
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Offline lasersailor184

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M-26 Pershing
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2005, 04:13:55 PM »
Perk points have nothing to do with how many were made.
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Offline john9001

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M-26 Pershing
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2005, 04:17:08 PM »
no, we need tank destoryers and tracked artillery.

Offline sullie363

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M-26 Pershing
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2005, 04:48:28 PM »
Big old yes for the M26.:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
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Offline frank3

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M-26 Pershing
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2005, 04:51:34 PM »
And, ofcourse, grunts with bazooka's and ap guns :)

Offline Pei

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Re: M-26 Pershing
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2005, 05:52:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB82
I request the M-26 Pershing Tank to have something that can compete with the Tiger Tank.


I'd prefer an IS-2.

Offline Halo

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M-26 Pershing
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2005, 10:00:55 PM »
(QUOTE)

Perk points have nothing to do with how many were made.

(UNQUOTE)

One of the first planes perked was the F4U-1C, mostly because it was being used in Aces High way out of proportion to its limited number that saw combat late in WWII.

Similarly, only a relatively few Pershings made it into combat late in WWII.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2005, 10:08:17 PM by Halo »
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Offline lasersailor184

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M-26 Pershing
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2005, 11:44:11 PM »
No, perk points are placed because of the effect on the Arena.  Take one of the best US fighters, stick 4 Hispanos on it and you'll have a beast of a plane.

The Typhoon and Spit 14 had a decent amount of planes built AND USED.  But they aren't perked on a basis of how many they were built.  They were perked because they dominated.


Further proof of how you are wrong is the 3 Gun La7.  The 3 gun La7 only had 50-100 planes built, not many used.  Yet you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the arena with a 2 gun La7.
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Offline SFCHONDO

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M-26 Pershing
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2005, 02:16:05 AM »
PERK the LALA  :)
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Offline Halo

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M-26 Pershing
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2005, 10:20:11 AM »
(QUOTE)

No, perk points are placed because of the effect on the Arena. Take one of the best US fighters, stick 4 Hispanos on it and you'll have a beast of a plane.

The Typhoon and Spit 14 had a decent amount of planes built AND USED. But they aren't perked on a basis of how many they were built. They were perked because they dominated.

Further proof of how you are wrong is the 3 Gun La7. The 3 gun La7 only had 50-100 planes built, not many used. Yet you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the arena with a 2 gun La7.

(UNQUOTE)

Shouldn't use "wrong" in a discussion.  Very counterproductive.  Usually just a matter of listening better.  Of course perk points are mainly assessed for EFFECT on the arena.  No one would argue that point.

From the beginning of the perk debate, one of the main arguments for perking the F-4UC and limiting its EFFECT was because  it was used in Aces High in much larger numbers than the small number of its real life counterparts late in WWII and thus was having a disproportionate EFFECT in Aces High gameplay.  

I didn't make that argument, but many others did, and it is legitimate as part of the EFFECT.  As in real life, limited numbers of F-4UC's would not have that much EFFECT on Aces High, hence the perks to limit their EFFECT (and keep their numbers more proportionate to their real EFFECT in WWII).

The Pershing would be in the same vein.  It barely got to Europe.  Zilch EFFECT on the war.  But it could really distort the feel of WWII tank warfare if it were used much in Aces High.  

The 3-gun La-7 example is another good one, and strongly supported by its limited use in WWII.  Its 3-gun version probably should be perked, but not the 2-gun version.  That would seem so easy to do that it's surprising it wasn't done long ago.  

EFFECT is the bottom line, but it is a culmination of many factors including firepower, performance, and number of units.  

The ultimate example of EFFECT including large production numbers in WWII is the B-29.  It was so EFFECTive, including combat in large numbers, that it has never been introduced in Aces High no matter how many perks it would warrant.  

The other side of that EFFECT is the Me-262.  Although it never saw combat in sufficient numbers to turn the tide,  it is so superior in performance that it is the premium perk plane in Aces High.  Theoretically the B-29 could be introduced sometime with perks probably as least twice those of the Me-262.  

So yes EFFECT is always the main consideration, but supporting arguments frequently have cited numbers actually seeing combat in WWII vs. numbers used in Aces High.  There is nothing "wrong" about those arguments; they simply support considerations dealing with EFFECT.  

The F-4UC and your example of the 3-gun La-7 are strong arguments for perks mainly for EFFECT strongly supported by their limited historical use.  

Many Aces High participants are strongly influenced by EFFECTs of aircraft and vehicles in Aces High being reasonably commensurate with their EFFECTs in WWII.   Those preferences are neither right or wrong, just preferences.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2005, 10:45:47 AM by Halo »
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Offline Karnak

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M-26 Pershing
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2005, 10:40:14 AM »
Erm, I think the non-intorduction of the B-29 into AH has little, or more likely nothing, to do with how effective it would be and a lot to do with the time it would take SUPERFLY or NATEDOG to make it.

Aslo, the Spitfire Mk XIV and Tempest never got a chance to demonstrate if they'd dominate or not.  I think the Tempest would and I'm a bit doubtful of the Spitfire Mk XIV.
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2005, 12:39:08 PM »
The Spit 14 is a hellofa plane.  I personally think it's perked too high though.


But I will still say what I did before.  The thought process that an item is perked because of how many were in the war is wrong.  The numbers probably coincide with the performance and domination of these vehicles, but it's not the numbers that make up the perking.
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Offline TDeacon

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M-26 Pershing
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2005, 10:47:43 AM »
Back on topic...

Pershing is very Tiger-like in its capabilities, so would presumably be perked.  JSII or JSIII would be likewise.  

Instead (or in addition), I would suggest a mid-level tank like Sherman Firefly.  The gun (with APDS) is capable of killing tigers at over 2500m.  The armor is T-34/76-like.  Depending on how HTC implemented it, it would either be unperked, or low-perked.

Offline bj229r

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M-26 Pershing
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2005, 06:17:39 AM »
was Fireflyever deployed? My understanding was army rejected it because it had a Brit main gun
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