Author Topic: OS X versus Free BSD or Linux choices? (Read 325 times)

stantond · « **on:** March 19, 2005, 08:19:31 AM »

Hi,

I am considering getting a PowerMac for the public license Unix software available under the Darwin flavor of Free BSD (Unix). Of course, that is a $1500+ activity which I have to wonder if just installing FreeBSD on a PC or Linux will get me every bit of the Unix capability but with some more overhead. Either way, I think I'll need new hardware so there will be some cost. The reason I am considering OS X for a PowerMac is that the operating system has Unix (Darwin, etc) built in on a low level. Also, OS X under the Mac is setup so you don't have to use the Unix environment if you wish.

Has anyone has tried using OS X versus Free BSD or Linux? As ususal, a significant part of this acitivity is "what do you want to do" and to answer that question, any one of the three variants will work. I am wondering just how much of a system administrator I must become to run FreeBSD or Linux?

Regards,

Malta

indy007 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2005, 08:29:05 AM »

I have a dedicated linux box sitting in a NOC somewhere in California. If you know anything about command line based operating systems (think DOS, but more complex + better features), then it's easy.

Get a "Linux For Dummies" book. They're more often than not overlooked, and are usually really, really good.

Most Linux installations today (Redhat 9, Mandrake, etc) come with really nice GUI's that make it even easier. While I wouldn't trust my parents to be able to use it succesfully without me sitting over their shoulder for a few weeks, it's not difficult to learn.

Trell · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2005, 08:44:59 AM »

I guess the biggest thing you need to ask, is what you want to do with it. if you are just buying it becasue it is unix. then i would go with the linux. That way you can format it with windows when you get bored. They all have there own things about them. macs are fun to use for a lot of small reasons. My next laptop with be an apple.

indy007 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2005, 08:50:42 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Trell
I guess the biggest thing you need to ask, is what you want to do with it. if you are just buying it becasue it is unix. then i would go with the linux. That way you can format it with windows when you get bored. They all have there own things about them. macs are fun to use for a lot of small reasons. My next laptop with be an apple.

With WINE (or whatever they're using now), you could run Linux, emulate Windows XP (AH will run under it), and dual-boot into Mac OS X.

bikekil · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2005, 01:36:57 PM »

IF you want to play games, buy a console or stick with Windows.

I've heard and seen a lot of good about MacOS X (based on the BSD). But honestly, if you want to get something that you could install by a nice gui and then use, you can just download Fedora, Suse or Mandrake.
If you don't want to pay for the OS, that's abouyt the best you could get while still having it more or less easy to install.

I use Debian and extremely happy with this distro (and security updates by apt

) but it's not that easy to install.

Befire you decide, you can visit this site:
http://distrowatch.com/

oh, and btw. if you want to see how it's going to be with the linux on your PC, you can give it a try without installing anything on the drive. Download a live cd distribution and just boot from CD to load the whole OS without touching your HDD. Knoppix or Suse live coudl be ok for you to try it.

Nilsen · « **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2005, 02:35:33 PM »

I have a 12" powerbook with OSX and a Thinkpad running freeBSD. The thinkpad used to run redhat. OSX is better than freeBSD for everything me thinks, but I guess thats a matter of taste. Some people claim that OSX sucks on networks but I have not met anyone else that feels that way so...

anything i can do for you?

Sancho · « **Reply #6 on:** March 19, 2005, 03:54:52 PM »

OS X's command line environment is FreeBSD, Nilsen.

The remarks about OS X's network "chattyness" stem from early Appletalk implementations which constantly spewed out redundant network traffic for service discovery. The current system still is chatty, but communications are repeated after exponentially greater period of time, which in a short period reduces unnecessary network traffic to almost nothing.

Nilsen · « **Reply #7 on:** March 19, 2005, 04:07:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sancho
OS X's command line environment is FreeBSD, Nilsen.

The remarks about OS X's network "chattyness" stem from early Appletalk implementations which constantly spewed out redundant network traffic for service discovery. The current system still is chatty, but communications are repeated after exponentially greater period of time, which in a short period reduces unnecessary network traffic to almost nothing.

Thats prolly it. I have not used OSX until panther was released so I have no idea about problems related to earlier versions.

Yup, i know OSX command is the same as FreeBSD. Same engine under the hood...same basic commands

stantond · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2005, 01:00:56 PM »

Thanks for the input,

I have heard the early versions of OS X were not so good on networks as well. The later OS 10.2.x users I have talked to seem to think the network problems have been patched up. I tried a free Mandrake version of Linux last year but could never get it installed properly. I expect if I were to buy a $50.00 Linux book with disks, my chances of success would be much higher.

I am not adverse to Unix of any kind, but based on previous experience its amazing what a black hole in time and resources a computer can be. I think that is why people pay the $80.00 price tag on Red Hat Linux distributions. While software can be no cost , I have found there is often some 'price' to be paid either in time to learn, system stabilty, malware (in the case of Winxx) or hardware upgrades. I have an idea what is involved in a Linux installation and have to wonder if a FreeBSD installation is even more detailed in specific steps and would require more knowledge and dedication?

Regards,

Malta

MrCoffee · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2005, 03:34:45 PM »

If you dont know linux or bsd and you get a mac osx, you'll probably never need to worry about the unix part of it unless you want to use some sort of command line software tool. For the most part its still a mac and has its desktop features with the nice benefit of a unix os underneath. Still Id raher have a pc because the processors are faster and I can boot into xp to play games.

Vulcan · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2005, 04:15:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sancho
OS X's command line environment is FreeBSD, Nilsen.

The remarks about OS X's network "chattyness" stem from early Appletalk implementations which constantly spewed out redundant network traffic for service discovery. The current system still is chatty, but communications are repeated after exponentially greater period of time, which in a short period reduces unnecessary network traffic to almost nothing.

You obviously haven't experienced the multicast capabilities of just about every OSX applicatin....

Sancho · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2005, 04:58:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vulcan
You obviously haven't experienced the multicast capabilities of just about every OSX applicatin....

Rendezvous does use multicast. Here's how it works, if you're curious. See the "avoiding chattiness" section:

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Networking/Conceptual/dns_discovery_mach/concepts/chapter_2_section_3.html

Vulcan · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2005, 08:57:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sancho
Rendezvous does use multicast. Here's how it works, if you're curious. See the "avoiding chattiness" section:

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Networking/Conceptual/dns_discovery_mach/concepts/chapter_2_section_3.html

As does Apples remote desktop utilities and a bunch of other stuff found in OS X. OS X's networking layer is one giant DoS

Seriously though, OS X is nice, but IMHO its very immature and the frenzied mobs of Apple supporters often don't have a clue when it comes to enterprise level computing and whats expected of a platform. They are also insanely believing of all the crap Apple tells them, perfect example is iChat, which they seem to think is the bestest vid conf app ever, when in fact it represents something more akin to Netmeeting 1.0 from about 199-whatsit.

And don't get me started about Apple security...

Windows ain't perfect, but neither is OS X.

Nilsen · « **Reply #13 on:** March 21, 2005, 03:19:30 AM »

I am in no way an apple fan. Imo Steve Jobs is worse and more of a dictator than Bill Gates will ever be. Ichat?.. its not very good at all.

I love OSX and my powerbook, but apple as a company and many of the other products are junk imo. Tons of geeks are in awe everytime Steve gets on stage in his very casual clothing (well executed PR stunt) and starts chanting his apple gospel and wanting evryone to support the struggle against the big bad microsoft. (not in so many words but still)