Students Killed in school shooting...

[Yeager]

I have never seen or heard another person being shot or even mugged or stabbed for that matter.  I have seen a few people get punched in the button (nose) for various reasons.  I am 40 years old and have lived in the same community most of my life.

I have however seen people get seriously injured and killed in car and motor bike accidents.  Heck I have been in two car accidents and seriously injured in one of those.  Come to think of it, alot of people I know have been hurt in car accidents.  I know of three people in my life that have died in cars.  Crime with guns just hasn't been a problem as far as I have experienced life.  I guess its because I live in a right to carry state.  Maybe.....

[beet1e]

Well yeager, I invite you to come over to visit sometime. I'll dispel a few myths!

But, with 23 school shootings in a year, don't you think some changes are needed?

I think we need to drop the car/bike accident thing, as these contrivances are much more useful than guns, and we could not sustain our lifestyles without them. I say that even as one who was knocked down by a car at age 5, and was hospitalised as a result. Guns we can do without.

Crime with guns just hasn't been a problem as far as I have experienced life. I guess its because I live in a place where there aren't any.  Maybe.....

[thrila]

eeek! guess i shoulda looked back at this thread earlier.  OT: I didn't know you studied at Scotland seagoon, i've never actually been that far north, the furthest i've even been is leeds:D   What made you decide to go there? far too cold for my liking.

[bustr]

Yeager,

Location - Muroc Dry Lake

I may be thinking the wrong dry lake, but, do you live in Antelope valley or Apple valley out there in the high desert? Iv'e visited people out there. And I used to live west of there in Escondido while I did a year of temp work in San Diego. My impression is the area is more like Arizona than California. I think many of the locals don't think having a shotgun or a pistol under the car seat is a problem. It can be a long time between state troopers or local PD if you call 911 or the local PD.

[lazs2]

Ok beet.. you don't have to have guns in your country if you don't want to... course... you don't want to make the decision for yourself.. you want to make it for all your countrymen.

If you ever do have school shootings I bet your solution will be to put guns (armed police) in the schools.   Why are you arming more and more police if the problem isn't getting worse?   why does your royalty have armed guards while they are in england?

lazs

[BUG_EAF322]

I think teachers should be at least armed with an UZI.

School is war.

And in war u have the freedom to defend.

[JimBear]

Originally posted by beet1e

But, with 23 school shootings in a year, don't you think some changes are needed?
 

Not that it makes a difference to anyone involved in those 23 incidents, but there are 50 Million School age children in the U.S.
Makes that about 2x more likely to be hit by lightning than gunfire.

outta here

[lazs2]

I don't think you need an uzi but... if two or three guards walked around openly carrying them in school it would probly go a lot further to stopping the problem than making up a new law...

What will it be this time... No guns within 600 yards of a school?  the more stringent the gun control in schools the easier it is for the nutjobs to kill the sheep.    If some of the sheep were know to be wolves in sheep clothing there would be no problem either....

Unless you are afraid that like armed pilots on airlines... the teachers would simply go crazy and start shooting students like the airline pilots shoot passengers.

lazs

[Shuckins]

The unarmed guard made a heroic attempt to stop the perp.  Students say he saved lives by delaying, however briefly, the punk's murderous attack, allowing the kids time to exit the room.

Whatever the merits of some of you people's arguments about the usefulness of gun-control laws, they would not have prevented THIS particular catastrophe because the jerk stole the weapons from his grandfather, who was a policeman and legally entitled to have them, and murdering him in the process.

How many lives the school guard might have saved if HE had been armed is being ignored, rather conveniently I might add, by those pushing an agenda.  In light of Columbine, why in the Lord's name didn't that school have an armed guard?  What good is an unarmed security guard in that situation?

Or would an armed guard have disturbed the delicate sensibilities of the parents and administrators of that school?

Those lives COULD have been saved, if the people just mentioned had faced reality.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by bustr
Vulcan,

Are you by chance a member of an affiliate organization to any of the US Anti Gun groups? Or a member of one of the UN affiliate NGO world small arms disarmement groups? You seem to have no regard for our constitution or understanding of how it works. It is non-negotiable. Other wise it would leave itself to the mercy of constant tampering to suit the whims of elite individuals.  

You neither seem to read most of the stuff I write or you'd understand where I'm coming from, nor do you seem to understand the role of democracy.

Good luck with your second amendment, when the luny fringe of the anti-gun crowd eventually force a gun ban down your throats that is far worse than any gun laws found in NZ I'll be sitting on the sideline telling you I told you so

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by lazs2
I don't think you need an uzi but... if two or three guards walked around openly carrying them in school it would probly go a lot further to stopping the problem than making up a new law...

Lemme, see the kid steals his grandads guns, his grandad is a law enforcement officer. Lazs says give the law enforcement guys uzi's. Wonder what the end result would have been then lazs? A kid with a couple of uzi's at school would've been "interesting".

Shuckins: its a catch 22 scenario. Because of our gun laws, the majority police are unarmed, thus his grandfather would never have had the firearms to be stolen (I'm not advocating disarming US Police, just saying that you can't write off this situation like you do)

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Yeager
the antigun crowd in the USA is growing increasingly frustrated at the lack of progress made in stopping stuff like this from happening. They are pissed off with the freedom to live without fear of being shot being taken away from them. Their cause is gathering momentum.
====
Dunno bout this one.  Clinton started the whole gun ban movement back in 94 with the assault weapons ban.  Ever since then, the democratic (anti-gun) party has suffered a continual loss of power at the voting booth and is now a defeated minority party experiencing greater reduction in influence than even the republican party did under four FDR administrations.

Well, thats the way it appears to the outside observer, so I may be wrong. But everytime you get a school shooting like this you get the knee-jerk pass a law crowd out, until finally it reaches critical mass and they start passing stupid laws.

[bustr]

Originally posted by Vulcan
You neither seem to read most of the stuff I write or you'd understand where I'm coming from, nor do you seem to understand the role of democracy.

Good luck with your second amendment, when the luny fringe of the anti-gun crowd eventually force a gun ban down your throats that is far worse than any gun laws found in NZ I'll be sitting on the sideline telling you I told you so

Vulcan,

We live in a Constitutional Republic. Not a Democracy. Our constitution is "non-negotiable". After getting majority votes in congress to convein a constitutional convention, the repeal or change to the Sencond Amendmant\any amendmant will still have to be ratified by legislative majority votes in all 50 states.

This eliminates the ability to tamper with the constitution by an elite minority for personal gain\power. Or by an emotionally histerical minority (Liberals) to force unwanted social engineering on the majority. A guard against the tyranny of the "minority" manipulating Mob rule. You never know, the break might be the "Luny Fringe" causing an exercise of the real purpose of the Second Amendmant. I've talked to alot of very pissed Americans myself. After all, aren't we gun owners just a bunch of cowboys and rednecks holding back the enlightenment of our country by an eilite minority of Liberals domestic and foreign?

The rule of a democracy "Mob Rule" at it's worst was in Athens. 1 vote 1 citizen, majority wins period.  In voteing for a new leader, part of the process would result in an additional vote to have the old out of favor leader executed, forced to commit suicied, or banished. This vote was often the first official act of the new leader who had the "Majority Vote\Mob Vote" sewed up at that moment so to say.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Shuckins: its a catch 22 scenario. Because of our gun laws, the majority police are unarmed, thus his grandfather would never have had the firearms to be stolen (I'm not advocating disarming US Police, just saying that you can't write off this situation like you do)

I agree with Vulcan here.

Pro-gun/anti-gun, I think we're all agreed that we'd prefer not to see these horrific school shootings, and promising young lives curtailed long before their time.

I have not suggested the US should disarm, though I'm glad we don't have a flood of guns where I live. But surely the US could start looking at ways to stop nutjobs like irrational school students getting their hands on lethal weapons?

[Seagoon]

Originally posted by thrila
eeek! guess i shoulda looked back at this thread earlier.  OT: I didn't know you studied at Scotland seagoon, i've never actually been that far north, the furthest i've even been is leeds:D   What made you decide to go there? far too cold for my liking.

And here I promised to bail out, but since its entirely off topic... Well I wish I could give you some highly admirable reasons for going to St. A's but in a nutshell they were:

1) It was the best school that accepted me.
2) It was still considerably cheaper than most US Unis even with me paying the non-subsidized, no grant, US student rate.
3) My parents wanted me to study in the Old Country, and had the thinly veiled agenda of trying to get me 3,000 miles away from the girl I was obssessing over (Didn't work, she came over to London Uni. for a junior year abroad and I took the bus down from Dundee a lot. 4 Years later we got married, she's the redhead helping to hold our children in the Website photo.  )
4) Most compelling reason: I may be terrible at math, but not so much that I couldn't  figure out that the drinking age in the UK is considerably lower than the US (and as I discovered as a barman, functionally it's about the point that you can effectively reach over the bar to grab a pint) and my main agenda was to see how much beer and hash one could consume in the process of a school career.

So, there it is, I majored in killing brain cells at one of the UKs finest educational establishments. I was... How you say? Ah yes! A Beeeeg idiot.

PS: Visit Thurso some time, just so you can say I've been as far North in the mainland UK as you can go without getting your Wellies wet. No on second thought don't, its dead boring.

- SEAGOON