« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?  (Read 854 times)

Offline Pongo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6701
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« on: March 23, 2005, 06:05:23 PM »
Dont know if the results every made it back here.
He will never command a boat again.
Sounds fair.
Logged

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2005, 06:20:10 PM »
That....  sucks.  The whole situation.
Logged
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline killnu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3056
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2005, 06:34:11 PM »
as a current submariner, that definitely sux.:(
Logged
Karma, it follows you every where you go...

++The Blue Knights++

Offline SunTracker

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1367
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2005, 06:56:16 PM »
Theres two places you dont goof off, underwater and in the air.  

Apparently this accident was preventable, and due to some people not doing their jobs, a submariner was killed.
Logged

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2005, 07:44:35 PM »
That...  may be an oversimplification.  I think it's clear that nobody 'goofed off'.  The evidence suggests that's an unfair, and inaccurate assessment.  Here's my read:  

1. The US Navy provided charts with bad data.
2. Crew uses the data provided to drive the boat, boat crashes.
3. US Navy brass says: "omfg!!!" then begins working on accountabillity minimalization plan.
4. Result: "Well, we notice that your charts (for your ship, built in 1981) are, uh, missing some Notices to Seamen published in the 1960s that suggest there might be something wrong there.  Sure, we gave you bad charts, but...  you should really have known somehow."

The only real area where someone messed up is, when they did a sounding earlier and got a return that was shallower then expected.  Mayhaps they should have begun not trusting their maps then?  Tough call, especially when you're ingrained to so all your troubleshooting based on finding your location, because your maps are a known accuracy.

Finally, the most important:
5. The captain is responsible for everything that happens on his ship.

Just because he didn't MAKE this happen, and most likely could not have prevented it from happening through any reasonable excercise of his command authority doesn't change the fact that a military commander is, in the end, responsible for everything on his ship.

Hence, this situation sucks.
Logged
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2005, 08:15:12 PM »
Quote
Three other enlisted men, all members of the San Francisco navigation team, were demoted one rank, one of them from electronics technician 1st class to electronics technician 2nd class, and two others from 2nd class to 3rd class.


This is what kinda of ticks me off.  Yes this crew is responsible for the Navigation but it seems like they are held to a higher standard than the officers with all the demotions.

Most of them will probably not be allowed to re-enlist thus ending their carreers.  The officers OTOH may never command but might well be able to serve 20 and retire.  

I admit I am ignorant of submarine operations and this may be standard practice in this type of situation.

I can only see this if the maps are updated like our technical orders that we use for mait.  We recieve TO pages that have changes in them and are required to update them.  If these guys ignored those changes and were using outdated maps then yes it seems like all the NCOs in the section should be held accountable.  Just seems like the enlisted guys here are getting the shaft.

PS TY pongo for the update.
Logged

Offline SunTracker

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1367
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2005, 08:18:53 PM »
I dont think its that lop-sided Chairboy.  The first thing they teach you in oceanography is that only 5% of the sea floor has been studied.  I think the Captain knew that there were uncharted sea mounts in the ocean.  And why hadnt he checked to see if his charts had been updated?
Logged

Offline Swager

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1352
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2005, 08:32:13 PM »
Well this totally blows.  Freakin Navy always has to blame someone when something goes wrong.  The sailors have to have faith in their charts, otherwise they couldn't go anywhere.  

This was an accident with noone to blame.  There are submarine sailors being found guilty for doing nothing but their job.  Being on a submarine is always a risk and it is hazardous. One knows that when they volenteer.
Logged
Rock:  Ya see that Ensign, lighting the cigarette?
Powell: Yes Rock.
Rock: Well that's where I got it, he's my son.
Powell: Really Rock, well I'd like to meet him.
Rock:  No ya wouldn't.

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2005, 09:20:03 PM »
I definately feel sorry for those guys.  Sometimes **** just happens and you have to accept it.
Logged
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2005, 09:42:01 PM »
Hmmm...

Quote
The punishments, and the lines of questioning, seem to support claims by Navy sources last month that the submarine had not updated its charts with notices to mariners, some dating back to the 1960s and some made as recently as last year, that would indicate a seamount in an area where the water was supposed to be several thousand feet deep.



They were complacent and they were lucky they got away with just NJP.

Mistakes like this are completely avoidable  and this could have been.. hell should have been corrected.

I wouldn't chalk this accident as **** happens. The crew was negligent.
Logged
sand

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2005, 10:07:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Hmmm...




They were complacent and they were lucky they got away with just NJP.

Mistakes like this are completely avoidable  and this could have been.. hell should have been corrected.

I wouldn't chalk this accident as **** happens. The crew was negligent.


So am I reading this right that the nav section could have updated their maps but failed to?
Logged

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2005, 10:28:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
So am I reading this right that the nav section could have updated their maps but failed to?


That's my impression.
Logged
sand

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13916
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2005, 10:46:01 PM »
I concur as there is a statement in the article that there was an update in the last few months that showed the mountain. The charts hdn't been updated for several years in that sub the way I read it. That is an egregious fault on the CO, XO, Navigator(s) side. Not having the current updates when they are available is negligence. Doing it through NJP was less painful and costly to those invilved. The CO was shuffled to a end of career position and "invited" to retire the way the article sounded.

The Officers careers are toast. I doubt that any of the junior officers will see a promotion and be selected for eraly seperation when they get passed over. The enlisted folks can llikely salvage a career except for those with a permanent leter in their record. They will never see much in the way of decent assignments and possibly have a bar to reinlistment. Certainly they are lilely to need a new MOS to continue. I doubt any sub will want them.
Logged
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline rpm

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15661
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2005, 11:29:28 PM »
I said it the day it happened. Grounding a ship will end your Navy career 99.9% of the time. Right or wrong, that's the way it is.
Logged
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline JB73

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8780
Remember that LA class sub that hit a mountain?
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2005, 11:41:12 PM »
Quote
Please Note:
Registration is now required to access articles on TheDay.com that are one (1) day old to one (1) week. News articles written by Day staff after one (1) week will require purchasing.
The article that you are trying to read - "Six Members Of Sub Crew Punished For Pacific Crash", published on 3/23/2005 - falls beyond that limitation


notice posting date of my reply:

03-23-2005 11:41 PM
Logged
I don't know what to put here yet.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »