Manual trim

[kj714]

For those of you that use manual trim to get around turns quicker,  how do you go about it?

I know it sounds like a dumb question, but I've been giving it a shot, can't seem to get the hang of it or maybe I'm just not appreciating the difference it's making. I've gotten the impression that if you do it right, it can give a nice little edge.

[Jnuk]

i dont know that its using the trim itself that helps out, but not having the "combat trim" trimming it against you definately helps

[Howitzer]

Raise the elevator trim up to pull the nose around quicker.  It comes with a price of speed though.  I usually trim elevators up and down as need be, but I don't get much into aileron trim unless I'm beat up and nursing it home with bad wing damage.  If you are in a spit V, and pull a high yo-yo or loop, at the top cut the throttle and pull full up elevator and your nose will snap around, but if you don't hit what you are aiming at you better start diving to get your speed back  =)

[eilif]

i have manual trim set on axis' on my tqs throttle, "combat trim" is for bananas.

for high speed manuvers in many planes you have to constantly use trim, specialy the p38 and ki44.

[Murdr]

There's a bit of a myth surrounding this subject.  There are no virtual trim tabs on the planes.  Adjusting your trim in the game, technically moves the center position of the virtual stick in the cockpit.  That said, its possible (in theory anyways) to have the trim so far in one direction that its counterproductive for when you are trying to max out the stick in the opposite direction.

However, the envelope on the pilot and the plane model are the same.  If your plane is supposed to depart at 200mph with 18 degree elevators,  it doesnt matter how you get that 18 degrees.  Whether its 0° trim/18° stick, or -5° trim/23° stick, or 9° trim/9° stick, your plane will still depart when you cross that threshold.  Likewise your pilot will still blackout at the same G load no matter how you have your plane trimmed.

So one should be able to bring the nose around at the same maxium rate no matter how you input your elevators.  All stick, all trim, or any combination in between, the max rate of turn is still the same.

Some people swear by trimming up though, and I think its a matter of personal preference.

[Flyboy]

Originally posted by eilif
i have manual trim set on axis' on my tqs throttle, "combat trim" is for bananas.

[indy007]

I normally leave combat trim on, but I keep elevator, aileron, & rudder trim on my x45. If I start to compress in a dive, or I need to bring my nose around fast to put my guns on somebody in a turn fight, I hit the elevator trim. Costs alot of speed, but you can turn startling fast. Aileron trim I rarely use, only when I'm damaged, or cruising with an uneven dt/bomb load. Rudder trim I found pretty helpful in bombers. It gives you a much slower & gentler adjustment when lining up bomb runs, and doesn't really affect your speed any (thus, doesn't ruin calibration). Rudder trim is also pretty useful when moving into tight formations with squaddies.

I keep the combat trim on/off button on my pinky switch, so I can quickly cut it back on when I'm done with my adjustments and I want the joystick steering from a nice centered position. Practical example: Diving hard in a G10, compressing, and trimming out of it with elevator. As soon as it comes level I snap back on combat trim & can let go of the joystick if I felt like it.

[1Klink]

kj714 if you need help setting up your joystick with the manual trim,E-mail me and i'll set up a time to do so,it's really simple to set up.

[kj714]

Hey thanks for all the replies!

I went in the training arena last night and started pulling the nose trim up in the turns and I *think* it was helping.

Even though Murdr I do get where you're coming from on the points that some part of it all may be a little bit mythical.

Even though blackout still occurs I feel like I'm at least getting around a little quicker.
There just doesn't seem to be any physical (in a virtual way) way to really prove the whole thing out.

Of course there's always the psychological bit of thinking you have an edge actually gives you an edge!

Jnuk, I never really even thought about combat trim working against a player in a turn, sounds logical though, yet another reason not to use it!

Thanks Klink, I've had my trim knobs on my X45 set up since I first got it, have used manual trim to level out the plane for since them.

One thing though, when I use trim just for flight, here's how I do it:

On the way to the fight I'll reach my usual alt of 7-8k, let the plane settle down with no wep on and trim there.

Should I be trimming level for a different speed/alt than that?

[JB73]

Originally posted by Murdr
So one should be able to bring the nose around at the same maxium rate no matter how you input your elevators.  All stick, all trim, or any combination in between, the max rate of turn is still the same.

except if you have combat trim on, it attempts to keep the plane level, working against you in the turn sometimes, that's where the manual trim, even if kept "neutral" is a tighter turn.


comabt trim basically tries to make the plane fly smoothly.

[Murdr]

Yea, Ive had an article posted regarding that on the squad site for awhile, but the question was about manually trimming elevators up to turn tighter.   I agree with what you said tho.

[Furball]

i use combat trim 99% of the time and i manage ok.

try concentrating on your anticipation rather than trimming

[hitech]

JB73: Combat trim does not attempt to keep the plane level. All it does is postion the trims at a preset point for any given speed. As long as you speed dosn't change your trim tabs will not move.

The only time trim would help your turn rate is if your stick is already full back, and you still need more elevator. This would only be the case at higher speeds in some planes where you can not exert enof stick force.

[DamnedRen]

Originally posted by kj714
Hey thanks for all the replies!

I went in the training arena last night and started pulling the nose trim up in the turns and I *think* it was helping.

 If thinking it works helps you then do it until you find that you still die alot.

Even though Murdr I do get where you're coming from on the points that some part of it all may be a little bit mythical.

Facts are facts but positive attitude toward resulting from myths can be very helpful if you win fights.

Even though blackout still occurs I feel like I'm at least getting around a little quicker.

If you blackout alot try adjusting your stick sliders. Most folks don't black out at all.

There just doesn't seem to be any physical (in a virtual way) way to really prove the whole thing out.

There is and it's been explained as noted by others.

Of course there's always the psychological bit of thinking you have an edge actually gives you an edge!

Jnuk, I never really even thought about combat trim working against a player in a turn, sounds logical though, yet another reason not to use it!

Back to myths....and what "appears" to work for you

Thanks Klink, I've had my trim knobs on my X45 set up since I first got it, have used manual trim to level out the plane for since them.

One thing though, when I use trim just for flight, here's how I do it:

On the way to the fight I'll reach my usual alt of 7-8k, let the plane settle down with no wep on and trim there.

Should I be trimming level for a different speed/alt than that?

Auto Combat Trim does everything most folks will ever need and they get lotsa kills....honest! I'd be happy to help anytime you want it:)

[Manedew]

Originally posted by kj714
For those of you that use manual trim to get around turns quicker,  how do you go about it?

I know it sounds like a dumb question, but I've been giving it a shot, can't seem to get the hang of it or maybe I'm just not appreciating the difference it's making. I've gotten the impression that if you do it right, it can give a nice little edge.

The point is you can apply pressure with stick into the stall then push the fine edge of that stall betetr with trim..... this at a point where pulling the stick back would be too much stall and you would drop a wing.

It's for more precise control .... flying well is all about precise control.....

plus planes that get stiff near compression are controlable by trims at high speed