Author Topic: My inner Buddha  (Read 2220 times)

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2005, 02:14:58 PM »
it's something that has to be done... if you can't do it yourself for whatever reason or if you simply don't want to... fine, don't.  let em starve or be gassed or shot by someone else or whatever.   you don't have to participate..  let someone else do the distasteful work for you.

I don't like to butcher game or even cows but I like meat.   I let someone else do it for me and am grateful... if you like grain or horses or livestock but don't like killing gophers then just let someone else do it and shut up.

nash... give it a try.  I think it's fun but then I like shooting.  Normal hunting doesn't involve enough shooting for me but ground squirels/gophers can be a lot of fun and useful besides.

lazs

Offline TheDudeDVant

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« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2005, 02:40:32 PM »
Yes yes.. The fate of all mainkind rest in the destruction of these god forsaken vermin..  They simply must DIE!  lmao  

lazs, have you ever been on what would be considered an actual hunt for food? (other than a trip to your corner grociery) Or is shooting still varments and squirrels your idea of 'the hunt'??
« Last Edit: March 25, 2005, 02:44:18 PM by TheDudeDVant »

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2005, 02:47:09 PM »
dude... I have killed and eaten a variety of game over the years.  I don't really enjoy it that much anymore tho and it is more trouble than it is worth around here.   I buy my meat all cut up and in celephane wrapers at safeway.   I don't pretend tho that it didn't used to be an animal.

you could probly let all the gophers live....except the epa won't let me at my facility... they demand that I eradicate them (levee protection).   as for farming or raising horses and livestock.... you could certainly just accept the loses.

Would you rather save gophers and have a higher price at the grocery store?  

would you be willing to have a few sewage ponds collapse into recieving waters once in a while to save gophers?   How bout... would you be willing to accept a certain amount of human deaths from levee destruction?

or... would you rather we just carry on as usual and not tell you about it?

let's see just how honest you are eh?

lazs

Offline TheDudeDVant

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« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2005, 02:57:26 PM »
lmao lazs.. Those damn varmin are taxing my food now!??!!  Those ARE some evil lil'creatures!  

Are you saying the EPA requires you to kill gophers on your 'facility'?? lol What is the quota?? And what is your 'facility'??

There are many things that could be done in the 'end times' examples you have given..  Better dikes, natural predators..  Who knows.. I've never faced the problem as these vermin have either been eradicated around my facility or are not indigenious (sp)...

But again, what was offered in this thread was a decision of choice.. Not choice of survival..  lol  Is everything life and death with you??

I was asking about the hunting because bird hunting can offer fun with the ability to fire several rounds/hour.. 8)  But in the end the hunter is expected to clean the kill. But delicate hands may not do so well at this..  hehe

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2005, 03:08:50 PM »
what part aren't you getting?  if you have vermin destroying a certain percentage of a crop then the crop price rises by that much.

"natural predators"?  that is killing them bud... it's just that you are introducing something in the mix that will tear em limb from limb and start eating them before they are even dead or... gas em slowly to death or poison em ever see one that has been poisoned?

Not life or death... never once said it was except in the case of levees.

I run a treatment facility.  the epa sets my "bounty" at..... all of em.   No gopher holes at all are allowed.   Can I make it any simpler for you?

and no... I did not like cleaning game much... I am grateful when someone does that work for me.  I even pay em at the store.

lazs

Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #50 on: March 25, 2005, 03:17:57 PM »
what, you don't like greasy, grimey gopher guts? Mutilated monkey meat? Thirty dirty birdy feet?

Whatever that old guy is shooting them with at 25 cents a round is killing them, cleaning them and cooking them all at the same time. :D
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline TheDudeDVant

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« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2005, 03:22:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
what part aren't you getting?  if you have vermin destroying a certain percentage of a crop then the crop price rises by that much.

"natural predators"?  that is killing them bud... it's just that you are introducing something in the mix that will tear em limb from limb and start eating them before they are even dead or... gas em slowly to death or poison em ever see one that has been poisoned?

Not life or death... never once said it was except in the case of levees.

I run a treatment facility.  the epa sets my "bounty" at..... all of em.   No gopher holes at all are allowed.   Can I make it any simpler for you?

and no... I did not like cleaning game much... I am grateful when someone does that work for me.  I even pay em at the store.

lazs


A certain percentage of crop destroyed by prairy dogs??  Com'on lazs.. You can't fall for that one can you?? Did the NRA sell you on that one bud? Do you think those vermin could destroy a larger portion of those crops than say the US government pays those same farmers not to plant said crop??  You've heard of such things haven't you??  lol  That one is a real stretch.. But maybe you are not familiar with the life of a farmer..

Righton with your water treatment plant.. Its very understandable to warrant the removal of varmin in such places..

But again, this thread is not about such things when you chimed in to call me foolish in your words..  Its a choice of killing for fun.. Not nesseccity..

So just like you going to Canada (you said your brother lives there?) to shoot these evil varmin, its a choice of killing for fun.. Not for nesseccity.. Besides, how much money did you save us by butchering all those canadian varmin?

So wrap your idea of fun in any kinda 'saving mankind' message you want.. It simply is not true..

Offline DieAz

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« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2005, 06:13:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dune
Here in Arizona, the Gov't agencies that maintain the water supply to farms will pay people to kill gophers.  Some people supplement their incomes by trapping gophers.  They collect the gopher tails and when they have a coffee can full, they take them down to the water district and collect their bounty.

 



How much they pay?

Offline JB88

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« Reply #53 on: March 25, 2005, 06:55:35 PM »
there was an episode of dave atell's "insomniac" (comedy central) in which he rode along with some of the shooters.  cant remember if they were gophers or rats, but they drove around late at night shooting them from thier truck.

as far as i can remember he didnt shoot any himself.  

he painted them with his typical style of course.

wonder if that episode will air again before your trip.
this thread is doomed.
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word.

Offline Lizking

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« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2005, 07:02:21 PM »
Laz, don't bother arguing the self-styled Dude.  I think he is 14, wealthy and not very well read, though since I have only his posts to go by, I could be mistaken.

Offline JB88

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« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2005, 07:08:29 PM »
wouldnt be the first time liz.

;)
this thread is doomed.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline Lizking

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« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2005, 07:09:42 PM »
Not about him.

Offline bustr

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« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2005, 07:13:46 PM »
Gunfire Rakes the Hayfields in a War Against the Squirrel
By ERIC BAILEY, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

FORT BIDWELL, Calif.--The pickup bounced along a farm road, still deep-rutted by winter. Cason Baugh peered through the dusty windshield at alfalfa fields basking under the first warm rays of spring. Then he spotted it, right up ahead.

The enemy. The dreaded varmint. A tiny ground squirrel that, along with a few thousand burrowing cousins, is capable of chomping a good quantity of Baugh's crop.

Quick as a cat, the farmer grabbed his small-bore rifle, right beside the sloshing coffee mug and half-filled cup of cigarette butts. He aimed. He fired.

The little critter fell, quite dead--another casualty in the squirrel wars of Surprise Valley.

Up here in California's far northeast corner, where the U.S. Cavalry had its last outpost and a few Wild West folkways still abide, folks shoot first and ask questions later when it comes to squirrels.

Each spring, scores of hunters flock to the green hayfields of Surprise Valley--population 1,500--to take on the ground squirrels that have commandeered vast swaths of this agriculturally rich acreage.

The climax comes the last Saturday of March, with the Surprise Valley Squirrel Round-Up. Rifle-toting marksmen roll into this land of stark beauty and secessionist sentiments, a world removed from the California of suntans and silicon chips. This year's battle, the 10th annual, drew 90 hunters, some from as far away as the East Coast.

As the morning sun topped an eastern ridge, the crack of rifle fire rolled up and down the 70-mile-long valley, bouncing off the scenic walls of snow-capped mountains.

Hunters hunkered in almost every farm field, high-powered rifles set on tripods, cross hairs on any squirrel daring to poke its head above ground.

Tim Riggs, a drywall contractor who has hunted squirrels here for a more than a decade, arrived from Sacramento--nearly 300 winding road miles away--with a pack of 10 buddies.

"Over the years, we've put a dent in 'em," said Riggs, peering through binoculars at the agricultural battleground. "Yesterday, we probably shot 125, 150 each."

Not much bigger than a beer can, the Belding's ground squirrel is a nettlesome problem for hay growers and cattle ranchers all over the West. But if there is a front line in this nasty little war of attrition, Surprise Valley may be it.

"We have more squirrels than just about any other part of California I know of," said Joe Moreo, Modoc County agriculture commissioner. "In some spots, the ground is literally crawling with them."

All over the valley, alfalfa fields appear pockmarked by bomb craters--the telltale mound of dirt at the mouth of each squirrel tunnel.

After wintering in a city-like maze of dens beneath the farmland, the rodents emerge ready for action. As the hay matures, the short-tailed animals diligently mow it down in neat circles radiating a dozen feet from their holes.

Cattle and horses can take a wrong step and snap a leg in the tunnels. Tractors break springs and shackles. Harvesting equipment gets gummed up on the mounds.

Baugh, 61, has seen the worst of it. Last year, half his crop in one badly infested field was devoured.

"It's breaking us, I'll tell you," said Baugh, a stocky man with a gravelly chuckle when he isn't thinking about the squirrels. "That field over there, I don't know how many thousands have been killed, but they seem thick as ever."

That's music to the ears of hunters like Bob Stacklie. A retired Portland firefighter, Stacklie sees a circle-of-life kind of thing at work in Surprise Valley.

"The farmer wants them gone. The hunter can shoot them," Stacklie said. "It's as symbiotic as it gets."

To that end, Stacklie pulled out out his Thompson Contender, a huge pistol packing the delicacy of a cannon.

Boom!

"Missed," he muttered. "Had to have parted his hair on that one."

The annual carnage is, of course, more than a bit unsettling to many big-city animal lovers unfamiliar with the back-country ethos that pervades these parts.

For years, locals in Surprise Valley have been bracing for a backlash from animal rights activists. Though voracious, the squirrels are liquid-eyed, petite, cute. There were rumblings the first few years of the squirrel shoot about a few animal rights groups from Southern California making the long trek. But no one ever showed.

"They probably didn't want to do the drive," said Candy Maidens, Greater Surprise Valley Chamber of Commerce president. If they ever do, Maidens said, "I'd be happy to have them talk to some people who had to shoot a pet horse because it broke a leg in a squirrel hole."

Moreo, too, has answers to arguments that man has no business preying on defenseless squirrels.

The rodents, he contends, are not valley natives. They moved down from the hills as farmers created an "artificial environment." The lush alfalfa fields have produced squirrel populations higher "than anything Mother Nature could do."

To most denizens of Surprise Valley, ground squirrels are no better than cockroaches, no different from gophers in a Beverly Hills garden or attic rats in Redondo Beach.

And the hunters are the best exterminators they've got.

"Just think of me as the Orkin man," grinned Tim Ellquist, a Redding jewelry salesman cradling a shotgun. "They've got easy living, and they multiply like rats."

With that, Ellquist excused himself and raised his weapon.

Pow!

There are plenty more where that one came from.

Aside from engaging in gastronomic excess, the squirrels are breeding machines; every year, a pair can produce more than half a dozen babies. Said Ray Page, a local cattle rancher: "No matter what, they always seem to win the battle."

It wasn't always so. Until a decade ago, Modoc County made headway by deploying a notorious toxicant: compound 1080. Agriculture officials carefully mixed it with sliced cabbage, loaded an airplane and carpet-bombed the worst infestations. But in 1990, the county lost its permit for the poison, long implicated as a threat to the endangered bald eagle and other birds and animals. County officials fought furiously, to no avail.

No surprise there to locals in one of California's most isolated and forgotten spots. Distrust of big government runs deep among residents.

Some, in fact, would prefer to see the state line moved 15 miles west, putting them in Nevada. They still talk wistfully of breaking away: Four of five county voters backed a 1992 advisory measure calling for a divorce from the rest of the state. "This is a small, rural, mom-and-pop place more like Wyoming than anywhere else," said Moreo, the agriculture commissioner. "California's regulations often just don't fit us. And we have no voice. So why would we stay?"

While much of California boomed in the 1990s, times were bad in this hinterland. The lumber industry had gone kaput; mining shriveled; the beef market flagged. Long a place of double-digit unemployment and high welfare rolls, Modoc was one of only three California counties that shrank in population during the decade.

But what Surprise Valley lacks in commerce it makes up for in scenery and community.

Bald eagles sit on fence posts. The forested Warner Mountains line the valley's west edge. Cowboys still drive cattle right through the middle of town. Babies and deaths bring out the community. And most everyone waves hello to total strangers. Though folks hereabouts have been shooting squirrels for generations, the springtime fusillade didn't become an institution until the poison program ceased and the rodent population boomed. In 1992, Chamber of Commerce leaders concocted the Squirrel Round-Up, which has been an unvarnished success. Hunters put a hurt on the varmint population and help the local economy, keeping the handful of hotels and restaurants chugging.

Surprise Valley's squirrels rarely disappoint, turning out in herds. Even so, nailing the fleet-footed rodents in no cinch. "It tests your skill," said Dave Pimentel, a copier technician outfitted for battle this day in camouflage hat and trousers. "You're being a sniper. That's what it is."

As in any war, some varmint hunters seek the high ground. Frank Neth, a retired grocery store manager, got on the roof of his RV.

"Pretty quick, one will pop its head up," he said, armed for now only with a can of Diet Pepsi. "I'll drill him."

Then there is the War Wagon.

That's what Michael Harper, a Chico gun range employee and part-time wildlife guide, calls his specially outfitted hunting van. An elevated platform atop the rig gives hunters a perfect angle on their tiny foes. For $150 a day, Harper hauls rifle-toting clients to Surprise Valley each weekend during squirrel season.

Up top, Glenn Snodgrass, a 70-year-old Portland retiree, popped off shots at a happy clip as the squirrel shoot drew to a close. "I've got a neighbor who says, 'How can you shoot those poor things?' " Snodgrass observed between shots. "I say, 'How would you like a dozen mice in your house?'

"Besides," he added, "the farmers love us."
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline bustr

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« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2005, 07:18:39 PM »
Check out this link bottom of the page. California trys to keep it quiet that their critters carry the plague.........

http://www.varmintal.com/avarm.htm
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2005, 01:56:58 AM »
I see nothing wrong with shooting gophers, though I have had my share of shooting non-edible critters while hunting deer.  The hunter's credo is eat what you shoot.  That often is a goal to work toward for most hunters, and I eventually took that to heart as I matured.  I tended to do as other hunters did in my group.  When in Rome...  I will say that the serious hunters only shoot the game they are after, and don't take opportunity shots at coyotes, bobcats, etc. unless they are looking for a mount.  I don't fault others for it, but I personally felt kinda bad after doing it myself, and decided I wouldn't do it again.  Seemed wasteful to me and I couldn't justify it for myself.

[Mother mode on]...
The best thing you can do Nash, if you go gopher plinking, is to familiarize yourself with varmint hunting much as you can before going.  You may need a hunting license. Take it seriously because it is serious business handling a firearm.  And don't drink while hunting.  Guns and alcohol don't mix.   There are many safety rules, but that one is the most important one of all.  If your companions are drinking while shooting the gophers, then don't go hunting with them again, because they are there for a buzz, not to hunt gophers.  Drinking after the guns are put up is part of the experience if you don't have to drive somewhere, are staying at a hunting camp, etc... [Mother mode off]

I know this sounds unenthusiastic, but I am very particular about who I hunt with, and I need to know what my hunting partner is going to do if an emergency comes up.  I've hunted for the past 20 years and there are only two or three people I would even consider going hunting with.

Have a great time and let us know how it went if you decide to go.  If your friend hunts deer too, you may get an invite to experience that, and I think you would enjoy deer hunting.  You being an artist, you will see some cool landscape scenery to draw/paint.  And with deer hunting, there is plenty of time to look at the landscape and scenery.  You see a lot of things while on stand.

Take care  



Les