Did this go too far?

[crowMAW]

I've heard the argument that the 1st Amendment is a guarantee for freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.  And, since the majority of Americans are Christian, there is no reason not to have government endorsed prayer in schools and proselytizing religious icons on government property.  Where is the line and did this cross it and why?

http://newsobserver.com/news/v-printer/story/2233207p-8613419c.html

Happy Easter Christians...

[Chairboy]

The other lesson said, "God has a niche for each creature He has created, down to the tiniest microscopic being. He also has a niche for each person He has created."

The suit says that when the parents complained to principal Deborah Anderson, she asked, "What's the problem? Don't you and your family go to church?"

Ashlee came home with a worksheet on which she was marked wrong for answering that "chance" was the reason many animals are colored to match their surroundings. The teacher indicated that the right answer was "God's master design," the suit says.

I've seen stuff like this before and asked my christian friends about it.  Even when it's right in front of them, they frown a little, maybe scratch their heads.  Then they look up at me, still frowning, and ask what's wrong with it.  Some of them just don't get it.

[Replicant]

It's a difficult one to call, I guess it depends on what sort of school it is.  I went to a Church of England (Protestant) school so it was all Christian.  Nearby was a Roman Catholic school so that was obviously Catholic teachings.  Then other schools for other religions, such as Hindu, Sikh, Muslim and Jewish etc.  So if someone is enrolled into such a school then that is what they should accept.  However, and this is the issue, an individual should be given the right to practice whatever religion they choose.  A school should provide as much guidance and support, if requested, for that person to 'find' what they are looking for.  They shouldn't ram anything down anyones throats, especially children, since this would often have the opposite effect.  It's a fine balance.

I know that when I was in the UK the PC brigade were making it more and more difficult to embrace the Church of England religion incase it offended non-Christian people.  For example, some councils/districts were avoiding the use of 'Christmas' in case it offended people?  Why?  Near to where I used to live they had 'Diwali' which was an amazing Asian festival.  It demonstrated the acceptance of non-Christian beliefs and was widely encouraged by non-Christian and Christian alike.

So... if this is your 1st Ammendment then yes, it should be a freedom of religion, whatever religion that might be.  As for causing offence, well, I guess common sense should prevail.  Do schools have questionaires for students with different religious beliefs?  Are students asked if they have any objections?  Quite often the people making the most noise are the PC people, and probably Christian, saying that it isn't fair towards other religions.

Religion.... a funny old thing eh?!

[Siaf__csf]

Nothing funny about it really. It's been used for centuries for mind control and setting ideas on human cattle.

Muslim extremists hate you and me from the bottom of thier heart only because they've been fed lies since birth. They live in a totally different world which has values opposite to ours.

This was achieved through abuse of religion.

[Gunslinger]

A fifth-grader's family is suing the Cumberland County school system because her teacher used a Christian text that preached creationism and encouraged children to proselytize for Jesus.

Yes this went way to far.  There is a difference between being free to practice one's religion and having it taught to your kids in a public school.  

Yes, schools should teach theology but it should be taugh from a textual standpoint of historical and social implications.  

as a parent and a christian I would not want my child's teacher telling him/her that there is but one god and his name is allah.

[oboe]

Agree completely Gunslinger.   Way too far.   I'm a Christian but I'd rather the public schools stick to teaching science, and let children receive religious instruction from their parents and/or church.

Creationism is not a scientific theory.

[rpm]

School is for science, church is for religion.

[OIO]

reminds me of that bumper sticker...


"You will not preach in my school and I will not think in your church. Deal?"

[Maverick]

Pretty egregious violation of seperation of church and state. I find it hillarious that this teacher had no idea she was over the line the same for the principal.

As far as the subjects taught in a chrch sponsored school vs a public school, that should be a no brainer. A church sponsored school has it's own agenda and is obviously following it. It is also a private insitution where students are enrolled at the parents request. This is not the case in a PUBLIC school. Religion is not supposed to be taught in a public school in the US. That is not to say you cannot discuss the presence of religion, but that dogma or doctrine is not a subject for the class in a public school.

[Chairboy]

Storch is conspicuosly absent from this thread.

[lasersailor184]

THERE IS NO SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!


I'm so damn sick of everyone saying this.  

If you think the constitution says that Church and State must to be seperate, you need to take an adult learning class on reading skills.

[Chairboy]

Laser, would you mind commenting on whether you felt it was appropriate what the teacher and principal did?  And if so, can you explain how a public school teaching about 'God's master design' is not related to "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"?  Seems pretty clear cut that what they did was catamount to making Christianity the Word in school.

[-tronski-]

Dammit, I so wish I went to that school...I would've so aced every exam with "it's God's master plan" to answer every question...unless it was multiple choice (doh what was I thinking - theres only one choice!! )

 Tronsky

[Sandman]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
THERE IS NO SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!


I'm so damn sick of everyone saying this.  

If you think the constitution says that Church and State must to be seperate, you need to take an adult learning class on reading skills.

Take it up with Thomas Jefferson. I believe he originated the term.

Mr. President

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

[Nash]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
If you think the constitution says that Church and State must to be seperate, you need to take an adult learning class on reading skills.

America's entire reason for being was predicated on seperating itself from the BS tenticle-like grasp of monarchy and piety.

It was why ya broke free in the first place.

Now ya got folks digging around trying to make the argument that this isn't the case. And that America is fundamentally Christian. And should govern as such.

These folks, however, are the antithesis of what America is about. They are what America broke free from in order to become America.

A coupla hundred years ago you saw past the madness.

Do we get dumber?