Author Topic: Woah! look at this ki84!  (Read 4558 times)

Offline Sp4de

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Woah! look at this ki84!
« on: March 27, 2005, 06:33:46 PM »
Click me

only a few pictures but dang!! that looks sweet! can any of you skin it?

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2005, 09:20:55 PM »
Quote

(Image removed from quote.)



 Looks like might be a Kamikaze plane.

 The fuselage letters say; "must sink"

Offline oboe

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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2005, 09:28:31 PM »
I didn't know they used front line fighters as kamikaze.   Thought it was mostly 2nd line stuff and bombers.

Its a colorful scheme though.   Wonder how the community feels about skinned kamikaze planes?   I haven't really made up my mind how I feel about it.   Seems like it could be a touchy subject.

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2005, 09:48:54 PM »
I've wondered the same oboe. I wouldn't mind if someone else does it, but I won't want to skin it.

Offline Viper17

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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2005, 09:56:02 PM »
Best play it safe and dont do it.

Offline Cobra412

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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2005, 03:28:47 AM »
I don't see what the problem is.  It's historic. In my mind it's no different than placing kill tallies on the side of the planes.

Offline Dinky2003

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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2005, 03:35:18 AM »
Couldn't you guys just omit the Japanese characters?

Offline oboe

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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2005, 07:25:43 AM »
Being historic doesn't necessarily help, as I've learned from my "Itsy Bitsy II" P-38 skin.   If HTC thinks it will offend too many people then they would disallow it, and I can't say I blame them.
That said, I doubt many people would realize it's a kamikaze scheme.

I recall serving as a kamikaze pilot in a Warbirds scenario years ago.   I dutifully flew my D3A into the deck of a carrier, but it gave me sortof a creepy feeling about the whole thing.   Granted you can't accurately recreate late war Pacific battles without recognizing these attacks, but I found something unsettling about an enemy who was so desparate they would commit barely-trained kids to intentional suicide missions.   A few years ago someone floated an actual document of instructions to kamikaze pilots and its contents were just sad.

Maybe its just a Western mind/Eastern mind thing.   Or maybe I would do the same thing if I were in their shoes.   For now, its just an aspect of total war I don't think I care to commemorate in a game-- along the same lines as massive fire-bombing raids or use of atomic weapons.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2005, 09:06:27 AM by oboe »

Offline victor

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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2005, 06:03:47 PM »
We can hide all day long, to not offend people .And  I think care should be taken to ,but with that said, history never changes even if society does. Pilots felt honored to dressed their planes with markings indicating kills ,beliefs,ect. that is history and cannot be changed. This is intended in no way to flame or bait anyone. My grandfather was among the first native americans to hit the beaches on D-Day  and wore our tibal colors and insig. on his uniform which would probably be offensive today,but I still see pride in his eyes when we;re looking at old photos.  Just my take on markings.

Vic

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2005, 08:54:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by victor
We can hide all day long, to not offend people .And  I think care should be taken to ,but with that said, history never changes even if society does. Pilots felt honored to dressed their planes with markings indicating kills ,beliefs,ect. that is history and cannot be changed. This is intended in no way to flame or bait anyone. My grandfather was among the first native americans to hit the beaches on D-Day  and wore our tibal colors and insig. on his uniform which would probably be offensive today,but I still see pride in his eyes when we;re looking at old photos.  Just my take on markings.

Vic

That is true, but it is not how Japanese see the Kamikazes.  Contrary to popular beleif, they were not really volunteers and they did not want to go.

Mitsu mentioned that kamikaze skins were not something that he liked.  The idea of flying to die is no more appealing to a Japanese than an American.
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Offline victor

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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2005, 09:41:46 PM »
Thank you Karnak for that well said comment. Not being a history buff or very knowlegable of the Japanese culture,I can only speak from the culture I grew up in.However after I posted I thought of different cultures and how they view their efforts are involved in the war.Thank you, I stand corrected,at least in part.


VIC

Offline Hawklore

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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2005, 01:51:15 AM »
Divine Wind...

It's sort of like a Holy Knight on a single crusade..

They had guts to do it, just like we had guts to land on Iwo Jima...

Skin it, don't be PC, PC is stupid..
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Offline TexMurphy

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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2005, 02:46:32 AM »
Personally I think that is one of the coolest Ki skins Ive seen.

I do understand if you dont feel "right" about doing kamikaze skins. But I would really appriciate it if someone could research the history around this.

Though I find it really strange that they would use as new planes as the Ki84s as kamikazes.

Tex

EDIT: according to this: http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/ki-84.html

Very few Ki-84s where expended as Kamikaze planes, but still they where used as ones.

Question now is was this perticular one a Kamikaze?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2005, 05:13:43 AM by TexMurphy »

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2005, 07:19:18 AM »
The problem is they didn't have guts to do it. They were forced to do it, with refusal being totally unacceptable - the pilot, if he refuses, would not only face court-marshall and be charged with high treason and disloyalty to the Empire, but his family would also suffer.


 So look at it this way;

 A society based on checks, balances and 'shame', on the verge of losing the war.

 The world around him is going mad and falling apart, some people are going berserk, others are sobbing and crying. The war is lost, but the military refuses to surrender.

 As a pilot, everything is so frustrating and hopeless, everyone knows he will probably die on the job, Depression is the norm, many feel mentally ill and suicidal. Every letter sent to his family is censored, and he is not allowed to talk about the truth of the kamikaze.

 So, a frustrated, hopeless, deeply depressed pilot waits "the time", as convicts in the death row would. There are no 'pardons' in this 'prison', and everyone around you expects you to die.

 If you refuse, you will dishonor your family and your name, sent to be courtmarshalled and put to death sentence anyway. Besides, your family would be branded as 'family of the traitor', shamed in the town/city they lived, mocked, cursed, and shunned from the society.

 So you're gonna die anyway. There's no getting out of this death spiral. Might as well just barge in, and hope at least your family will be protected and be highly looked upon, thanks to your death.


 It's sad, grim, and I find no holiness in any of it.
 
 What makes it worse, is that the Imperial military conscripted kids from their colonies under military rule.

 Quite a few kamikaze pilots were actually Koreans, who in this case, were dragged out from their homes, taught flimsy two-bit flight lessons, and sent to die. If they would think otherwise, these Koreans would be shot down by their 'wardens' in the air.

 It wasn't even their war they were fighting. They were sent to die for a country which destroyed their own country.

Offline moot

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Woah! look at this ki84!
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2005, 08:40:20 AM »
It's a game and this skin looks good.
I'd fly it.
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