Woah! look at this ki84!

[Skydancer]

"It's a game and this skin looks good.
I'd fly it."

Straight into a Carrier?

[oboe]

Interesting contrast in attitudes between Kweassa and Moot.

According to "Emblems of the Rising Sun" by Peter Scott, the tail markings are a match for 57 Shimbu-Tai, or "Special Attack Unit" -
which leaves no doubt about it being kamikaze.   Oddly, the unit really was equipped with Ki84s, which perhaps indicates the severity of Japanese desparation at this point in the War.

Because of the nature of these units, markings were often colorful images of winged bombs, arrows, eagles, death's heads, etc.   Slogans and the names of aircrew were often painted on the aircraft immediately prior to the final flight ("Must Sink").
Formation leaders' planes generally carried bright lightning flashes on the fuselage to aid in recognition.

[TexMurphy]

oboe

The difference in attitude is based on "family history". Doesnt have to be directly family history but the closer it gets to home court the more sencitive it is.

For me personally it took me a very long time before I could even fly german planes, still not overly comfortable in doing so.

Tex

[oboe]

Tex,

I hear ya.   I wasn't trying to be judgemental about either; I just thought it was interesting how these two 'extremes' are represented in posts right next to each other.   Kweassa's post was long and thoughtful, while Moot's was more of a puncuation mark, short and direct, but expressing the opposite POV.   I'm not sure there is a right or wrong here, like you say it depends on the person and their history.

The truth is, whatever we think doesn't count for much anyway, because HTC will ulitmately have to make the call if someone does skin this plane.    I don't think I'd skin it, and don't think I'd even fly it in the game now that I know its history, but I won't be offended if someone else does.   It is after all a game, and people approach it with different levels of seriousness.

Actually, the game mechanics do not even support kamikaze-style attacks, right?    You have to drop your ordnance from some minimum altitude to make it effective?

[moot]

There might be a corelation between that dogfighting strategy and being a forum troll, yeah.

[TexMurphy]

Originally posted by oboe
Tex,

I hear ya.   I wasn't trying to be judgemental about either; I just thought it was interesting how these two 'extremes' are represented in posts right next to each other.   Kweassa's post was long and thoughtful, while Moot's was more of a puncuation mark, short and direct, but expressing the opposite POV.   I'm not sure there is a right or wrong here, like you say it depends on the person and their history.

The truth is, whatever we think doesn't count for much anyway, because HTC will ulitmately have to make the call if someone does skin this plane.    I don't think I'd skin it, and don't think I'd even fly it in the game now that I know its history, but I won't be offended if someone else does.   It is after all a game, and people approach it with different levels of seriousness.

Actually, the game mechanics do not even support kamikaze-style attacks, right?    You have to drop your ordnance from some minimum altitude to make it effective?

It really is an intereting subject that HTC really needs to consider.

If not for ToDs in the Pacific.

Personally I find the entire usage of Kamikaze pilots very disturbing to say the least. But that said the skin is cool and Id propably fly it.

Id feel much more comfy flying it then german planes.

Strange how people work. But I wouldnt object the slightest if it kamikaze skins got banned.

Id understand it much more then the "Itsy Bitsy II", which I still dont understand why it was "banned" (I do in theory understand it but not in common sence way).

Tex

[moot]

Bombs have to travel +-400yds last I checked.

I understand Kweassa's pov and relate to it, but when I'm sitting in front of my joystick and pick a skin in the hangar, it comes down to what my pixel-avatar is going to look like to the guy I'll virtually shoot down.
The Swatiska I might have second thoughts about using, then again it's just pixels in a pixelized rendition of WWII; I don't mix it and the RL relations I might/would have with each real player.

There's a skull+bones on the back of the lancaster, it's doubtful anyone took issue to that or any other noseart/paint from "PC" political regimes etc that're taken for granted as humane.

And like you said HTC is the final arbitrary.

[moot]

3/400 yards is more or less 1kft which I also remember as the min. distance bombs must travel to arm.

[oboe]

You guys are right - it is strange how people work.   I think its a really colorful and attractive Ki84 skin, but now that I know it was kamikaze, I have second thoughts about it.    I think its because I read some pretty gruesome personal accounts of the result of a kamikaze attack on the USS Franklin, and read that document of instructions given to kamikaze pilots, which was simply a tool for brainwashing the pilots, IMO.   It just reminds me of stuff that I'd rather not think about when I want to enjoy myself playing the game.     It's funny, the swastika doesn't have the same impact on me.    It was on every Luftwaffe plane, and didn't indicate the pilot was a Nazi.   So the pixel/avatar thinking works for me sometimes, but I guess in a few cases it just doesn't, and the only reason I could offer for that is sometimes I've personalized what I've read about and other times have not.  And I don't know why that would be.   Maybe it was the writer's style that allowed you really to put yourself in the situation?

In general I wouldn't favor banning skins, but then again I don't have to field the complaints the HTC does if they put in something controversial.    I figure they know what they're doing and leave it at that.   Arguing with HTC wouldn't get me anywhere anyway.

Moot, your point about the dogfighting strategy and forum troll went right over my head, sorry.   But thanks for the info on the bomb arming distance - so a player can't really duplicate kamikaze tactics even if they wanted to.   The crashing aircraft does no damage, only the bombs would have an effect.

[Sp4de]

Sorry for causing all this.. I didnt know and did not want to offend.
-Spade

[Karnak]

Oboe,

Are you refering to the final hit on Franklin that almost sank her and took her out of the war?  If so, that was not a kamikaze as I have read it.  What I understand is that a D4Y "Judy" dive bomber dove out of the clouds and hit her, then escaped into those clouds.

If that is not what you are refering to I am not familiar with the incedent you are talking about.

[1redrum]

history be dammed ,being PC is whats important,,,lets just rewrite history as to not offend anyone,,then after a while the true history will be forgotten,,,so we can repete it ,,all history however unpleasent should be written drawn and pictured for the ages lest we forget and repet the same mistakes,,,and how the "paint scheeme "on a AC can offend is beond me,,,
what i find offencive is that people are willing to ignore history because it "is in bad taste",,,politicaly correctness will be the downfall of man,grow some balls do the skin remember ALL Vets and their sacrafices.keep there stories alive lest we never forget,and never repete

[oboe]

I'm not offended by any of this discussion - even if someone skins the kamikaze plane and HTC puts it in the game I wouldn't be offended.  

I do try to remember the vet's sacrifices on all sides, and appreciate those who document their experiences with words and pictures.   That is how I became acquainted with the horrors of kamikaze attacks in the first place.   Some things I just don't feel are appropriate for a game though - for example firebombing civilians and the dropping of atomic bombs, the ability to shoot chutes, having to destroy churches in AH towns to capture them (I'm not sure if AH2 towns have churches, but AH1's did), or kamikaze planes.    But that is my view only and I can respect a difference of opinion on the issue.

Karnak sorry, the story I refer to was in a free volume of Military History I had a few years ago, but didn't hang on to.   I wouldn't bet my life that it was the Franklin, though thats what I remember (could it have been the Bunker Hill?).   Anyway the description of the carnage created by the impact was very graphic, and there were photos as well.   I remember one description of a sailor who had been blown in half at the waist, dragging his torso to the edge of the flight deck under his own power just so he could throw himself off the deck and drown in the sea.   Just gruesome and sad.

I know there are plenty of gruesome stories related to about any aspect of warfare you care to to think about, but that image really stuck with me for some reason.

[Karnak]

Oboe,

I too have read some pretty gruesome things resulting from kamikaze attacks.

But when you get right down to it, the fact that it was a kamikaze instead of a bomb makes no difference to the horror that it produces.


1redrum,

Not everything is about politics.

[killnu]

not necessarily about politics, i agree, but thats not what he said.  http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=politically%20correct