History misconceptions

[Glasses]

What about Kurt Tank?

[Skydancer]

We couldn't have built the pony, because we were too busy building spits, typhoons, mossies, lancs, stirlings, wellingtions, hallifax, tempests, meteors, and many other fine aircraft. As well as inventing the Jet, Radar and cracking the enigma code.

Plus we were under air attack, blockade via the Uboat and generaly fighting for survival.

We built a damn good engine though that made the pony what it was.

Also we bombed by night and therefore had no real need of a daylight escort fighter. The pony was supposed to supplement our existing fighter force I believe and only realy proved itself as the wars finest escort fighter for USAAF daylight bombing missions.

So US designed and built, British power, proven as a daylight escort fighter for USAAF

As for me I'm quite pleased we had Radar and the Spitfire and Hurricane otherwise the War in Europe may never have been there for you guys to help win.

[Pongo]

"Also we bombed by night and therefore had no real need of a daylight escort fighter. "

Which was totaly ineffective and only a waste of the lives of the men you sent and a waste of the planes you sent. Why....
Because you had no long range escort fighter.

[Rino]

Originally posted by Skydancer
We couldn't have built the pony, because we were too busy building spits, typhoons, mossies, lancs, stirlings, wellingtions, hallifax, tempests, meteors, and many other fine aircraft. As well as inventing the Jet, Radar and cracking the enigma code.

Plus we were under air attack, blockade via the Uboat and generaly fighting for survival.

We built a damn good engine though that made the pony what it was.

Also we bombed by night and therefore had no real need of a daylight escort fighter. The pony was supposed to supplement our existing fighter force I believe and only realy proved itself as the wars finest escort fighter for USAAF daylight bombing missions.

So US designed and built, British power, proven as a daylight escort fighter for USAAF

As for me I'm quite pleased we had Radar and the Spitfire and Hurricane otherwise the War in Europe may never have been there for you guys to help win.

    Yeah, you guys were doing a bangup job before 12/41.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Easy guys.  That was such an obvious troll.  Leave it be.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by gofaster
Cool!  I think I might even have one of your books if I'm Matlocking this right.

Well, I did borrow Widewing from my friend's company, Widewing Publications. Widewing was also the Allied code name for the 8th AF HQ.

I haven't published a book as of yet. If I do, it probably won't be related to aviation.

I have have had photos published in photography anthologies. I have sold photos to magazines and newpapers.

Four years ago, I began writing with a well known aviation author. We worked for about 3 months, but the distributor put the project on hold. After 6 months of waiting, I withdrew from the project. Flight Journal is still sitting on several articles that may or may not be published... I'm not holding my breath. Oh, and when you write for magazines you should know that they pay only on publication. So unless you can wrangle a commitment from the editor, understand that your work is purely speculative.

The plus side is that I know many of the more well known aviation authors, and I do enjoy several friendships that resulted from my writing. You can't expect to make a living doing this, but you can have an enjoyable hobby that pays enough to compensate for the time and effort, if nothing else.

My regards,

Widewing

[Skydancer]

Nope not a troll.

Just remember not all players are from US.

Worth remembering that our country fought that war long and hard. Thats all. Oh and please don't show a lack of respect for the people over here that fought. I'm getting tired of the Euro brit bashing going on on this board and the offence taken every time I post something that does not sing and shout god praise the US of A from the rooftops. I don't have an anti american bias contrary to some people's views, just that I am proud of my country and the contribution its citizens have made. Tell me whats wrong in that!?

We couldn't have beaten the nazis and japanese without you, but remeber the operative word was "we".

[DamnedRen]

Originally posted by indy007
That's "industrial" or "grand strategic" bombing. It's been argued by people much more well versed in strategy than myself (like Lidell Hart) that it was a waste of resources.

If you check history you'll find out the Germans had already moved much of thier manufacturing facilities to small buildings in surrounding areas. Our bombers did a so-so job at best. The Brits, who bombed at night, considered on target as being within 5 miles of the target.

Ren
________________
The Damned
P.S. Did I mention my cousin was on Omaha Beach on D-Day?

:

[101ABN]

I thought that the only involvement on the P51 that the Brits had was the Merlin engine?

[Skydancer]

Me too but it was a good un!

[DamnedRen]

Originally posted by Skydancer
We couldn't have built the pony, because we were too busy building spits, typhoons, mossies, lancs, stirlings, wellingtions, hallifax, tempests, meteors, and many other fine aircraft. As well as inventing the Jet, Radar and cracking the enigma code.

And a good job, too.

Plus we were under air attack, blockade via the Uboat and generaly fighting for survival.

What was being blockaded? U.S. Shipping.

We built a damn good engine though that made the pony what it was.

Thanks for the engine we put in our wonderful plane!

Also we bombed by night and therefore had no real need of a daylight escort fighter. The pony was supposed to supplement our existing fighter force I believe and only realy proved itself as the wars finest escort fighter for USAAF daylight bombing missions.

Brits had their butts handed to them when they bombed during daylight hours. It was turned over  to the army-airforce. As I previously mentioned night bombing that hit within 5 miles of the target was considerd a good mission.

So US designed and built, British power, proven as a daylight escort fighter for USAAF.

As for me I'm quite pleased we had Radar and the Spitfire and Hurricane otherwise the War in Europe may never have been there for you guys to help win.

I thought the radar was continuously knocked out during the battle of britain and your spotters did a hellova job. As you say it took a team effort. Had you not had U.S. goods and support you might be speaking German today. In fact, we might all be speaking German, those of us they didn't murder because some didn't fit into their master race plans. Had D-Day been delayed much longer and the Germans gotten their mitts on the A-bomb we might all be eating sauerkraut right now. Had we stayed neutral there is no way britain could have survived.

So, if you here folks from the U.S. toot their horns a team player would toot their horns along with us and not complain about it. And everytime you hear anyone take a shot at the U.S. ask yourself, when have the people of the United States ever not given aid when it was needed?

Ren
___________________
The Damned

[Angus]

Oh, some odds and ends here:
"Germany actually increased production as the end of the war drew near.......the problem was fuel and pilots, not hardware."
Well, do you think that if they had NOT been bombed, their production capacity would have been less?
Ok, Bombing affects all factors of capacity, and logistics. Shortages of this and that always slow up production.
Then this one:
"As I previously mentioned night bombing that hit within 5 miles of the target was considerd a good mission. "
All versions really. Depended on weather and many other factors.
Some night bombing missions were quite accurate while others ended 50 miles from target. So, for instance, already in 1940, the Brits bombed the Siemens factory in Berlin at night.
Somewhere I read that a post war survey demonstrated that the night bombing was actually even more accurate than the daylight bombings, much of that courtecy of the pathfinder force. Would be nice to hear more of that.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Angus
Somewhere I read that a post war survey demonstrated that the night bombing was actually even more accurate than the daylight bombings, much of that courtecy of the pathfinder force. Would be nice to hear more of that.

I don't have the sources at hand, but the explanation appeared to be this:  By the end of the war (or at least by late 1944), the various electronic devices enabled the pathfinders to drop with extreme accuracy.  Because the British flew in a bomber stream, rather than in formations, each bomber (in theory, at least) targeted on the pathfinders' markers.  Under good conditions, this made for very accurate bombing by the entire force.  I believe that the examples I've heard were mostly in transportation centers (rail yards, that sort of thing).  By contrast, starting some time in early 1943, the US heavies released when their formation leader released.  Under even the best conditions, the resulting bomb pattern would be scattered over the same area the bomber formation occupied.

- oldman

[Skydancer]

Nowt wrong in tooting your horn DamnedRen. No probs with that or any of your post. Very balanced and fair. As I said it was a team effort nice to hear it recognised.

As for the bomber campaign probably its most important effect was the tying up of man power, technical  resources and fighter aircraft to defend against attacks. One reason maybe why the Germans never developed a realy effective strategic bomber, as their aircraft production was busy replacing fighters and fighter pilots.

Yes Bombing accuracy increased during the war as technology caught up with strategy.

One sad note is that despite the fact RAF and commonwealth bomber crew had a near 50% loss rate, and fought damn bravely they were never awarded a campaign medal. damn shamefull.

[joeblogs]

F6f is my favorite plane...

The 412 MPH story is well documented & air speed measurement error was not uncommon in those days. There are even some correction tables in some of the aircraft manuals.

But the engineers knew how to correct for measurement error and the US Navy had a standard procedure for obtaining & reporting data in its aircraft profiles.

I cannot imagine that USN would maintain a maximum speed number 24 MPH lower than the manufacturer claimed without some flight test data to back it up.

While the F6f had a similar engine to the Corsair, it was not the same engine. And while the Corsair eventually got the C series Double Wasp, the Hellcat never did.

-blogs

p.s. I know I am going to catch it...

Originally posted by Widewing
...


8) Grumman's F6F had a maximum speed of 388 mph.

The truth:

8) Due to a design engineering error, the pitot static port was mis-located. This led to a serious error in air speed indication at high speed. When corrected on a Grumman test aircraft, maximum speed was observed as 412 mph during factory flight tests. This was verified by the Technical Air Intelligence Command (TAIC). Their testing revealed a maximum speed of 409 mph while fitted with independent air speed measuring equipment.

My regards,

Widewing [/B]