Author Topic: Chicken Little (Read 2753 times)

Urchin · « **Reply #60 on:** April 01, 2005, 06:49:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It's not the game that needs to be fixed, it's the community.

And any attempts to limit the choices of players in game will eventually kill any game. Give the player more options, not less or restrict their options. No offense, but that Air Force idea is rather silly and would end up driving players away rather than attracting new ones or holding current players. Not all the options need to be in game.

ack-ack

The way I feel about it (and apparently the way Mako feels about it and Kweassa) is that the more options you "give" a player, the more options that will be ignored in favor of the "easiest" option. Example, plane selection... you give a player a choice between (granted, an extreme example) an La-7 and a C-202, and he will choose the La-7 99999 times out of 100000. This is evident by looking at kill statistics built up over 4 years.

Give a player an option between a Scout and an AWP, and he will choose the AWP. Those who have played CS know why. Would CS be more fun with less AWPs and more Scouts? Who knows. I haven't even played CS in like 4 years. But back when I did play, they were almost ubiquitous on some maps after the 4th round or so. You'd have 20 guys running around and 16 AWPs.

Give a player an option between "learning some ACM" so he will eventually be more effective, or putting him in a better plane so he will immediately be more effective, and he will choose the better plane.

Give a player an option between learning how to fight, or flying in a pile of plane attacking buildings, and the MA shows which one he will take.

The "change the individual" approach is fundamentally flawed, in my opinion. It might have worked when the number of people who have enough confidence in themselves to try to engage in "fair" fights outnumbered those who didn't, but the new MA is the new MA. Bring the most '45 planes, bring the highest '45 planes. If you get shot down, reup somewhere else.

I wish the guys who are trying to "train" people the best of luck. I just don't think it'll make any difference in the end at all. For every guy that is dissatisfied with his current effectiveness in a fight, there are 3 others who know if they fly something with cannons, fly with a lot of other people, and make sure to keep away from most 'bad guys', they'll get about 2 kills for every 3 deaths.

And they are happy with it .

At most, those people just want to know how to improve their aim a little so they win their jousts more than 1/2 the time.

Kweassa · « **Reply #61 on:** April 01, 2005, 07:27:35 AM »

This is basically a debate between religion and sociology.

If there's a really diabolical place to live, what must you emphasize on?

a) Send a lot of missionaries, preachers, mullahs, and buddhists and teach them the art of self control, and make them think differently. Pray a lot! And it will make the community think differently.

b) Clean up the town, make some new legislations and acts, start some welfare programs, get rid of the pimps and hookers, arrest the drug lords, and send the junkies and alcoholics to a rehab program. It'd be a lot easier for the community to start thinking differently, if the material side of the issue is solved first.

I'm not saying a) is not important. The most ideal thing would be a) and b) working side by side.

But if I am given only one choice, I'd choose b) over a) anyday.

According to certain circumstances, b) may solve the problem on its own.

However, a) never, ever, solves the problem on its own. That's a sociological, historical fact.

So preach on, brothers. Maybe in a million years, the community really would one day get up from their beds and think, "hey.. I've reached the next stage of mental evolution!"

Urchin · « **Reply #62 on:** April 01, 2005, 07:36:36 AM »

Well, but this is also pointless since we are all living in a town owned lock stock and barrel by someone who has a vested interest in keeping the status quo.

Kind of a fun debate though.

CHECKERS · « **Reply #63 on:** April 01, 2005, 07:59:59 AM »

(a) Spread the fields further apart again. ...
No Thanks , the fields in most of the new maps are to far apart now !
As for deaths and delays ... No thanks, I'm one of the players that plays the game for the furballs, "runnin' flat out in a Spit 5 " down in the weeds ! some 50 percent of my deaths in game , are -self inflicted " and come from hitting trees, tool sheads and crap. To be required to sit around in a tower and wait for some dumb arsed timer to tick away.................. before I could up a new plane and get back in the fight, would really be a drag.

Regards to all .....

CHECKERS

BigGun · « **Reply #64 on:** April 01, 2005, 10:14:05 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Blue Mako
The point is that there are plenty of people who liked it how it used to be as well and would like to see it somewhere between the two.

Balance grasshopper, balance.

I have been around since only tour 9 or so. I personnally don't think the MA has changed that drastically. Not much different now than it used to be IMO. I think what changes more dramatically than the gameplay is people's perception, not the actual game.

As far as balance...there is plenty of room for different styles of flying, playing the game.

sniper68 · « **Reply #65 on:** April 01, 2005, 10:31:50 AM »

i agree with urchin and KW on pretty uch everything they have said but do any of u think the=e AGE difference in this game has any effect, and there such a diverse age group in the game ,ive seen 10 yr olds flying and 80 yr olds flying that has to have some over all effect on gameplay?

Golfer · « **Reply #66 on:** April 01, 2005, 10:59:19 AM »

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I wish the guys who are trying to "train" people the best of luck. I just don't think it'll make any difference in the end at all.

There is a bigger problem with the training system than having a system for trainees. The trainers in the TA I've found often don't know jack. I was there when an actual argument took place between a trainer and a student. Fortunately I was there from the beginning working on a POH for the 262 and 234 and saw the entire exchange.

Superduperubertrainer entered the arena with trumpets blaring and proclaiming his excellency has entered. Personally, I'd never heard of the guy. I was glad to see some folks were getting into the spirit of training, because I've found myself spending more time in the TA lately than the main becasue of burnout. Anyway, a new player who's numbername still had wet ink on it takes the guy up on his offer. After a relatively unorthodox approach to initial training, the new player winds up landing gear-up on the runway. It is an improvement over a lawn dart...sure. I just happen to be in vox range when it happens. "There you're on the ground." "Ooh your wing fell off, well YOU forgot to put the gear down." so on and so on. The new guy types back "you didn't tell me to put it down." I'm getting a pretty good giggle because this is something that would happen to any new trainer who didn't dumb-down EVERYTHING and I mean everything about what to do. (Have you seen folks ask about flaps, or shifting gears in a GV? "Use Q and W" is the only response) Well our hero starts off on a tyrade about how our number guy should be thanking him for helping him because he didn't have to. I sent him a private asking if he was really asking for thanks, to which he replied in the affirmative. I gave the schpel that as a trainer/instructor you will find it is a thankless job and your feelings come dead last in priorities when it comes to teaching someone how to fly. He seemed accepting to this and understood after we had a chance to type a bit.

It's great that experienced MA players are in the TA and offering to help. The more we can get the better in my opinion. I just think there needs to be a standardized course (Even a little webpage Q&A) for people who want to train. Obviously optional, but highly recommended for them to complete. This way there will be at least one standardized 'thing' for that instructor to fall back on when he's teaching rather than make it up. I find in the day to day world of flight instruction, I fall back on my training 90% of the time when teaching because that's all anybody has to fall back on. Teach the way you were taught and as long as you were taught properly, life is good. Also the students I'm working with don't care and don't particularly need to know every little bit of goofy trivia in my head so it's easy to keep it zipped.

During the course of this post I've had an idea. Why not make either a MS Word or .pdf checklist for trainers. Sort of like a lesson plan, except it gives things to them in the exact order they would use it on a flight.
Engine startup, basic taxiing and takeoff.
Cleaning up the airplane
Maneuvering
Landing
Once someone has figured these things out, cards for Rocketry, bombing, shooting and strafing. Carrier landings. Ect.

Would anyone like to assist in the gathering of knowledge for these? At least if you do something that you find success with, post your "tip" or rule of thumb. It would help out and I'll get to work on these and hopefully have them up in a week or two.

Magoo · « **Reply #67 on:** April 01, 2005, 12:58:26 PM »

Add in some plane factories in the Ma for people to kill. Ya ya, I know - that is what TOD is gonna be about. Personally, I will try TOD, but I don't think it's gonna be all that good. I hope I'm wrong. Anyway, back to the point - if you add some factories in you'l get some high alt missions to kill them and the associated counter attacks. Some of these planes are completely different rides at 25-30K and it's an entirely different game way up there fighting off escorts and killin' buffs. I love it....against real people (not the drones that will be in TOD). Even if TOD is a hit, it would improve the MA to have this stuff.

I don't care how you play the game, do what you like. I just think plane factories would bring some really good "Hate" to the game! (to steal a line from an old AW guy)

BTW, I love furballing on the deck, but killin' a guy at 20K+ is especially satisfying - knowing he invested 10-15 minutes to get there and is pounding his fist on his desk cursing you! (that's some good Hate too)

Magoo

rshubert · « **Reply #68 on:** April 01, 2005, 01:04:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
I think the first thread like this started in Feburary 2000 when the game had been pay to play for 2 months, but it may have been the month befor that.

The first post whining about how others play was posted on 9/25/99--some guy suggesting rules of engagement and complaining about low-level furballs. Interestingly, the first request by a Northern European Guy for the Brewster Buffalo predates the Beta, posted on 7/26/99.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

DipStick · « **Reply #69 on:** April 01, 2005, 04:59:30 PM »

Appreciate the response Mako. I can better understand your point of view now. Even though I still don't agree with it.

Personally I can't see paying $40 mth for cable connection and $16 mth for AH2 to log in and spend ALOT of MY time climbing or sitting in the tower but maybe that's just me.

GreenCloud · « **Reply #70 on:** April 01, 2005, 06:12:08 PM »

lol..I think Blue Mako..has more tiem to spen din Ah then alot of us..

1) I pay to play this game

2) I HATE Flying more then 5 mile sform my base? Why bother..i just want to fite

I dont liek wasting tiem flying throught virtual air to find a kill..farther bases?!!!,,,lololo

Tiem Delay?....that is crazy
So you cherry pick soem guy..and he ups and gets to you befor eyou grab back to yoru cherry purse perch?...hell no..thats a LIE

Gameplay is just fien..seems very stable to me..

Sounds Like you need TOD..

-ammo- · « **Reply #71 on:** April 02, 2005, 01:56:29 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by DipStick
Appreciate the response Mako. I can better understand your point of view now. Even though I still don't agree with it.

Personally I can't see paying $40 mth for cable connection and $16 mth for AH2 to log in and spend ALOT of MY time climbing or sitting in the tower but maybe that's just me.

~~You pay $16? I only pay $10.~~

Kweassa · « **Reply #72 on:** April 02, 2005, 06:00:51 AM »

Just out of curiosity, after seeing Golfer's post...

How do the Trainer Corps select trainers from the players? What are the standards? And are they actually instances of people being kicked out from the Trainer Corps due to lack of competency or bad conduct?

No disrespectful intent towards the hard working Trainers, I'm just purely curious.

Westy · « **Reply #73 on:** April 02, 2005, 02:09:47 PM »

"You pay $16? I only pay $10"

rotf.

That there's Badger bait for sure.

Pongo · « **Reply #74 on:** April 02, 2005, 03:53:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
Just out of curiosity, after seeing Golfer's post...

How do the Trainer Corps select trainers from the players? What are the standards? And are they actually instances of people being kicked out from the Trainer Corps due to lack of competency or bad conduct?

No disrespectful intent towards the hard working Trainers, I'm just purely curious.

strangly enought based on thier percieved ability to be a good trainer.

I was kicked out for abusing trainees, but every single one of those boys became a top stick. If they could make it through my training they were hardend killers. But thats not what was wanted, "pump as many dweebs through as possible" was the order.