Author Topic: Why am I not surprised .......  (Read 1855 times)

Offline straffo

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Why am I not surprised .......
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2005, 08:35:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by OIO
straffo he doesnt mean french army uses US gear, he means france depends on US army for its defense.


Well this is how I understand his sentence :
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
They don't manufacture weapons systems to defend their own country


Giving Seagoon job I guess he know the power of words and their meaning.

Perhaps I've made a translation error but his sentence was clear IMO.

storch

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« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2005, 08:38:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
IMO you just don't know the cold war is over.

Please name me a weapon system made in US we use ?


pffft that's easy to answer.  you use expatriate American liberal feminists with unshaven armpits and poor dental hygene.  also richard simmons was reported to be skipping up and down the champs elysees.  :D

Offline straffo

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« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2005, 08:39:48 AM »
richard simmons is not married with SOB anymore ?

Damm I need to by more "people" newspaper ;)

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2005, 08:42:36 AM »
What`s the surprise here?
It`s France. They can just surrender so many arms at once.
They have to sell off the excess.:D
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Sparks

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« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2005, 08:43:18 AM »
Straffo - why do you feel it is necessary for France, or any other country for that matter, to sell arms to China ??

They are technologically advanced enough to send a guy into space, have nuclear capability, and the largest army in the world. To me the only explanation is to give the Chinese access to the very latest technology - seems to me a very BAD idea.  Unless of course you feel the necessity to "buddy up" to a country which you feel will be the next super power.

This is either purely financially driven - in which case it stinks - or it's trying to buy favour - in which case it stinks.

Which ever way you look at it our children will be the ones picking up the pieces.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2005, 08:49:34 AM »
Good analyse.

Looking how French weapon market as been reduced during the last 10 year I understand why our weapon seller want so bad new market.

If the US  don't want this to happen the US will need to share a bit of their own market and it won't happen.

So ?

What to do ?

Sell our weapon to the USA ?
Won't happen.

Give up and buy our weapon in the US?
Won't happen either.

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2005, 08:54:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
IMO you just don't know the cold war is over.

Please name me a weapon system made in US we use ?


I know one.. it may not be a weapon but.. The Hawkeye is used on the Charles De Gaulle. :p

Offline Sparks

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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2005, 08:55:13 AM »
So it's ok to sell Hi-tech arms systems to anyone who wants them, regardless of the known attributes of the purchaser, if it keeps the prodction lines running.

And the fault of course is not with the French government - oh no - it's everyone else not opening up the markets.

Please tell me I'm not reading this .........................

So now you know - if you don't want France to sell arms to potential enemies you better get your wallet out and buy them yourself.  If you don't you only have yourself to blame :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: April 02, 2005, 08:58:29 AM by Sparks »

Offline straffo

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« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2005, 08:56:15 AM »
Is selling weapong to Pakistan or India smarter ?

Offline Sparks

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« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2005, 09:01:34 AM »
Nope Starffo - don't agree with that either.

Strangely enough pointing out another act of stupidity doesn't seem to make the first one intelligent.

The only point I would make is India and Pakistan only want to kill each other basically.

I don't think anyone in the West can clearly say what China's ambitions are in 50 years

Offline straffo

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« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2005, 09:06:21 AM »
I'm not pointing other act, we were trying also to sell weapong to them.

I'm not sure it's smart to sell weapon to China and I've no influence on this.

Personnaly I don't think it's smart, but I'm  not the one deciding on this subject.

Offline Sparks

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« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2005, 09:37:58 AM »
Interesting chart --- (I'm not promoting the site - just useful info)

Whos buying and selling

Note that China is an exporter - that means they have enough standard stuff - they need the new whizz bang stuff.

But hey France makes money out of it :aok

Offline oboe

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« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2005, 10:32:48 AM »
France has a real 'stick it to the U.S.' attitude that I admire.     In response to Nuke's characterization of French leadership I'd reply maybe its the U.S. that is run by a bunch of unrealistic, idealistic idiots.   Remember "Freedom Fries"?    How stupid and juvenile that was.

They have their own set of problems and I'm sure they are acting in their best interest, just as the US has done and continues to do.

By the way, I wonder what an emergency response plan for Indian offshore IT resources looks like, when everything has been incinerated in a nuclear firestorm?    Gonna make the twin towers disaster look like a fire drill, I expect.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2005, 10:53:11 AM by oboe »

Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2005, 09:45:30 PM »
Straffo,

First, please understand that my objective is not to beat up the French simply for being wilfully French. My point was to criticize their decision to sell arms to the country (China) that is currently the greatest potential threat to the country that defends them. (the USA).

To argue that the USA doesn't defend Europe, and that the Europeans do is simply nonsensical. Europe depends on NATO for its defense, and NATO is in fact the American Armed Forces, with some European assistance. This is what allows the European nations to spend such a small amount of their total GDP on their armed forces.

For instance, despite the fact that the French defense budget has increased dramatically over the past few years to the current high of $39.2 Billion in 2004 and the French deployed 34,000 worldwide last year, this spending is still dwarfed by the US defense budget of well over $400 Billion and a total troop deployment into the hundreds of thousands for the same year. It is not the threat of French intervention worldwide that keeps nations like China and North Korea within their borders, and it certainly wasn't fear of the dreaded French Foriegn Legion or even French Nukes that caused the USSR not to roll its armored legions into Western Europe.

How is France considering repaying the US for its past and present largesse? By selling weapons systems, and more importantly weapons technology to China, a country that spends over $70 Billion on its armed forces, and which might already be able to dominate in a single theater war with the US forced to cover so many areas at once.

Surely you aren't seriously going to defend this policy? Selling to India and Pakistan is dicey, but its hardly the same as selling to a country that has expressed a willingness to engage the US or NATO in a head-to-head conflict. By Comparison, it would be like selling weapons to the Japanese in 1940.

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Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Why am I not surprised .......
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2005, 12:28:06 AM »
Can't really blame them. The US and Russia have locked up all the smaller countries that just want to kill each other as customers.  French weapons manufacturers just doesn't have many options for a market, except to sell to countries we won't.  Arguing they are supplying someone we may have to fight is pretty weak, considering how many countries we have supplied ourselves with weapons that have ended up killing our troops later.  Pot, meet Kettle.  Kettle, Pot.