My new toy.

[Kegger26]

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Lazs, if you've ever been in any type of speed shooting competition, its similar but more restrictive.  

You can only use single action revolvers, lever action rifles shooting pistol caliber rounds, and shotguns designed before 1897 (which includes double barrel "coach" guns, either with or without external hammers), or pump action shotguns with an exposed hammer like the Winchester 1897 (most famous as a WWI trench gun).  You can also use lever action shotguns.  

It is a blast.  Pardon the pun.  

Its not just black powder though, they use all sorts of modern rounds.  Black powder (Pyrodex) is just my choice.  Last competition I had to borrow guns to compete and the guy who loaned me his guns had the SWEETEST matched set of .38 Rugers.  Consecutive serial numbers even.  The trigger pull had been modified to be very light and with that heavy a frame the .38 had almost no kick at all.  Superbly easy to stay on target.  Rifle shot the same rounds, except he used flat nose bullets instead of standard rounds.  20 ga. double barrel with double hammers and 18in. barrels.  I couldnt miss with that setup.  Ok I missed one.  Got greedy and went for too much speed on the last round.


Here's one pic of me at the line, second pic is me and the guy I borrowed the guns off of.

 Hey Tubby, before you start running around being a cowboy and such maybe you should try working out, losing some of that tub'o lard. Might I suggest http://www.curvesinternational.com/
























lol j/k

[StarOfAfrica2]

Well, its only good sense.  You should always provide proper shelter and protection for your tools, and a tool the size of mine needs a good sized shed over it.  



Besides, theres lots of curves there!

[mauser]

Someone once told me that when you get something you're proud of, build a roof over it.  

SoA, do you guys bring the gatling to the range often?  I live about 15 mins walk from the range and sometimes hear bursts of fire.  I figure it can't be us citizens, must be HPD or something.  

And no, I'm not complaining about the noise...

mauser

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by mauser
Someone once told me that when you get something you're proud of, build a roof over it.  

SoA, do you guys bring the gatling to the range often?  I live about 15 mins walk from the range and sometimes hear bursts of fire.  I figure it can't be us citizens, must be HPD or something.  

And no, I'm not complaining about the noise...

mauser

Err, no.  I met the guy that owns it.  Being an antique (and having a crank handle) it is considered a semi-automatic, and thus legal to use at the range.  Tho HPD does have a group that uses the range there.

If you live that close, I'm jealous.  That is some of the prettiest country on the island out there.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Well, both guns have passed their initiation.  I had to work a little to find the right load for them, and I'm going to experiment a little with some paper cartridges I'm making at home.  I bought one in a brass frame, that will remain straight cap and ball, the other one is steel frame and will be converted to fire black powder loads in .45 Long Colt cartridges.  

My Winchester is still en route somewhere between here and Texas, and my shotgun is still in Illinois (cant remeber what relative I left it with, my brother is looking for it).  That means I'll have to borrow these this time, but one of the guys has a Winchester in .45LC so it will match with the one revolver shooting cartridges.  

The action I found to be extremely stiff on these portable cannons (8" octagon barrels), but the weight means almost no recoil.  I'm going to check into getting a kit to rework the trigger pull for a lighter action, or at least get different springs for the hammer.  

We'll see how they shoot in competition Sunday.

[bigsky]

i am planning to participate this summer.
http://virtualmontana.com/montanadirectory/montanalistings/CC/montana11203.htm

[stantond]

I think when you convert a cap and ball  revolver to use a cylinder with cartridges it  becomes classified as a regular revolver.  That is not to say you can't do it, but there may be some ATF implications.  Black powder cartridge 45's (generally imported) require the standard ATF paperwork as any cartridge handgun.   I think Cabela's sells some.

I certainly won't turn anyone in for that, but some shooting buddy might.  Of course, you would have to talk about it in a conversation for people to know you did that.  So, please check with the ATF for all the proper procedures.  

I bought a Ruger Blackhawk .45 cap&ball when I was 16 years old (I paid for it).  Had a blast casting bullets and figuring out the load.  Turns out a 30 gr spout (by volume) with pyrodex and a 454 cal conical bullet will put six rounds inside 2" at 25 yards.  It is an accurate handgun.  I have the leather flap holster for it that I would love to find for a glock or cz-75.  

Have fun, and good luck with that.  Looks like alot of fun.


Regards,

Malta

[GreenCloud]

lazs where do u shoot at? argile park?


and..I love silloutte shooting..anyone have the best place for targtes'?

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by stantond
I think when you convert a cap and ball  revolver to use a cylinder with cartridges it  becomes classified as a regular revolver.  That is not to say you can't do it, but there may be some ATF implications.  Black powder cartridge 45's (generally imported) require the standard ATF paperwork as any cartridge handgun.   I think Cabela's sells some.

I certainly won't turn anyone in for that, but some shooting buddy might.  Of course, you would have to talk about it in a conversation for people to know you did that.  So, please check with the ATF for all the proper procedures.  

I bought a Ruger Blackhawk .45 cap&ball when I was 16 years old (I paid for it).  Had a blast casting bullets and figuring out the load.  Turns out a 30 gr spout (by volume) with pyrodex and a 454 gr conical bullet will put six rounds inside 2" at 25 yards.  It is an accurate handgun.  I have the leather flap holster for it that I would love to find for a glock or cz-75.  

Have fun, and good luck with that.  Looks like alot of fun.


Regards,

Malta

Nope.  Buying the gun is perfectly legal without any hassles as it's black powder.  Buying the conversion cylinder is completely legal, no paperwork required.  Installing it is perfectly legal AS LONG AS IT ISNT A PERMANENT CONVERSION.  How they intend to enforce that I have no idea.  The cylinder is a drop in replacement.  The gun is clearly marked on the barrel as BLACK POWDER ONLY.  All I have to do is take it back out after competing, put the cap and ball cylinder back in before transporting it, and it is not a cartridge firearm anymore.  Now if the gun is converted BEFORE I buy it, I have to purchase it the same as a regular handgun.  Stupid isnt it?  But I'm not complaining.  There is another level of conversion that is more permanent, requires changing the loading rod out and plugging the hole, installing a cylinder that has a loading gate on the side and an ejection rod.  That I can see an argument for.  But if the only time the gun fires cartridges is at the range, its perfectly legal as is.

[lazs2]

yep... you can buy black powder cartridge conversions through the mail   what they did then they can still do today.   I would not feel unarmed with a black powder revolver..

speaking of which... wonder what the anti gun/anti sniper rifle crowd thinks when they see 150 year old black powder rifles putting 400 grain slug into a paper plate at 1000 yards with open sights?

you can't ban guns based on capability.   All firearms from even a century or more ago are very effective.

greencloud... I didn't know they had an area for shooting at argyle park..

I belong to the Yolo Sportsman club (40 bucks a year to shoot unlimited number of times)  they provide two targets for a buck to start you out and you can bring your own.   I shoot their for target work and load development work... I shoot in the country or at my brothers place the rest of the time.

lazs

[StarOfAfrica2]

To be fair, some states are trying to "end run" around this.  Their theory is "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...........it must be a handgun."  But its still a gray area there are no specific laws passed either way.  Yes someone could come down on people with the replacements, but no one has done so yet (mostly because very few outside the black powder shooting community know the loophole exists).  And the few states that are looking at regulating this are doing so under immense pressure from anti-gun nuts.  We have 2 members of the local police force in the club, and the advice I have gotten is that as long as I go by my intentions and do not transport or store the guns with the conversion cylinder in it, not even the strictest interpreter of the laws can find a fault with my usage.  Even if someone did try, they would probably lose in court until someone passes an actual law regarding this issue.

[lazs2]

well... it's not just black powder.. many arms are so old that they are considered curios and there is no regulation on them at all..

For instance, you can buy a Turkish mauser through the mail with no paperwork... it is made in the late 18 hundreds and has allready been converted to 8mm mauser.   It will shoot the same as any modern mauser with the same bullet and velocity and energy.  

It is far more powerful than an "assault" weapon by the way.  This is as it should be... the government should have no right to restrict you from buying, selling or owning a gun unless you are currently in prison, underage or in a mental ward.

They should certainly be able to punish you tho if you misuse it or make a bussines out of selling or buying without paying their taxes and tarrifs.

lazs

[Airhead]

Originally posted by lazs2

you can't ban guns based on capability.   All firearms from even a century or more ago are very effective.

lazs

We could ask the Indians if this were true, but we shot em all.

[lazs2]

except for the "guido" tribe who we put in charge of reservations and casinos.

lazs

[StarOfAfrica2]

Well, partial success, partial egg on my face.  

Mistake 1 - Only took the guns out once to shoot before competing.  Normally I'm a little smarter than this.  I was overconfident in my ability to roll with any problems and keep going.  Shooting black powder rifles IN NO WAY (other than the very most basic) prepares you properly for shooting cap and ball revolvers.  Whole new ballgame.  I didn't test my gun enough with the percussion caps I bought vs. the ones I had leftover from shooting rifles.  The rifle caps I used at the first shooting worked nicely.  The ones I bought specifically for the handguns were crap.  They didnt fit.  Fell off, crunched up and blocked the actions, 4 misfired and got the balls stuck half in and out of the barrels.  This last was more than likely my fault, I think perhaps I didnt seat the balls well enough this time (excitement partially, and being rushed in the loading because of being in competition).  I had approximately 5 minutes to load both revolvers, a rifle, and load up on shells for the shotgun.  Measuring powder and loading up wads and balls into the cylinders, then seating 10 of those percussion caps in place took more time than I realized.

Mistake 2 - I had made plans ahead of time with one of the members to borrow drop in conversion cylinders in at least 1 of the guns, meaning only one would be really "experimenting".  This gentleman was also providing me with extra ammo, and if necessary a gun to replace my other pistol in case of problems.  He is experienced shooting cap and ball, and I was relying heavily on borrowing from him, both in equipment and in his knowledge.  He couldnt make it.  I found myself short of guns, short of ammo (because I only bought and brought what I was told to buy and bring), and woefully inadequate to deal with the problems I encountered.  Which again goes back to lack of prep.  I relied too much on what someone else could bring to help me, and not enough on myself to be properly prepared.  Lesson learned.

Luckily these folks are very generous, and some of them stepped up to let me borrow what I needed to finish the competition.  Even considering I had to take 13 misses on the first 2 rounds because of gun malfunctions, I still placed 24th out of 30 competitors.  At least I wasnt last!  

And for the ones that DID fire.............

There is nothing in the world like being sprayed with burning chaff when that cap explodes, and the big cloud of smoke that makes you look like a low-flying cloud.  

I love the smell of black powder in the morning!

Now if I can just get lead balls with fuses that explode like cannon balls.............