Author Topic: Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards  (Read 755 times)

Offline OIO

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« on: April 06, 2005, 08:53:29 PM »
Whats so wrong about them?

Offline Chortle

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2005, 09:09:39 PM »
Everything - they reduce freedom, increase govt power, cost money to implement and dont work.

Offline OIO

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2005, 09:12:22 PM »
reduce freedom how?

a national ID is the same as your driver's license or photo ID...both of which you need to do anything in life..from buying a car to buying a house or an airplane ticket..heck even to buy beer.

Offline Fishu

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2005, 09:12:43 PM »
How exactly does the ID cards reduce freedom?
How can it increase the govt power?
How it doesn't work?


Could also debate about the cost issues too.
How much money can it *save* by simplifying some tasks?

The ID card doesn't have to be carried on at all times, you can just leave it at home if you wish.
It would reduce your freedom if you would get held for not being able to prove your identity.
...which why the ID card could be also good.
Oh yeah, you can do the same with the drivers license... oh wait.. whats the difference?
Does that mean the drivers license actually reduces freedom, because it only lets you drive, but then acts also as kind of an ID card?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2005, 09:16:37 PM by Fishu »

Offline ASTAC

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2005, 09:30:19 PM »
What true reductions in freedom are there? Think about it..like someone posted before...your drivers license is in a national database now.... Thats how a COP in Cali..can arrest you for a warrant in Virginia...What difference would a national ID card make?..now if tey start putting up roadblocks on state and city boarders and make you present your ID to pass..then it becomes a problem.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline JB88

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2005, 09:32:26 PM »
yes it does.  a big problem.

if you are gonna do it, use it to replace all other forms of id...oh, and take away the states rights while you are at it...

then pray that they dont start screwing with you when you disagree.

is life a prison or a park?
this thread is doomed.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline Chortle

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2005, 09:35:48 PM »
This is what the proposed database will store if ID cards become law in the UK

Name
Other previous names or aliases;
Date and place of birth and, if the person has died, the date of death;
Address
Previous addresses in the United Kingdom and elsewhere;
Times of residency at different places in the United Kingdom or elsewhere;
Current residential status;
Residential statuses previously held;
Information about numbers allocated to the applicant for identification purposes and about the documents to which they relate;
Information about occasions on which recorded information in the Register has been provided to any person;
Information recorded in the Register on request.
Photograph
Fingerprints
“Other” biometrics (iris recognition);
Signature
Nationality;
Entitlement to remain in the United Kingdom; and
Where entitlement derives from a grant of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, the terms and conditions of that leave.
National Identity Registration Number;
The number of any ID card that has been issued;
National Insurance number;
The number of any relevant immigration document;
The number of any United Kingdom passport (within the meaning of the Immigration Act 1971 (c. 77)) that has been issued;
The number of any passport issued by or on behalf of the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom or by or on behalf of an international organisation;
The number of any document that can be used (in some or all circumstances) instead of a passport;
The number of any identity card issued by the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom;
Any reference number allocated by the Secretary of State in connection with an application made for permission to enter or to remain in the United Kingdom;
The number of any work permit (within the meaning of the Immigration Act 1971);
Any driver number connected to a driving licence;
The number of any designated document which is held by the applicant that is a document the number of which does not fall within any of the preceding sub-paragraphs;
The date of expiry or period of validity of a document the number of which is recorded by virtue of this paragraph.
The date of every application for registration;
The date of every application for a modification of the contents of his entry;
The date of every application confirming the contents of his entry (with or without changes);
The reason for any omission from the information recorded in his entry;
Particulars (in addition to its number) of every ID card issued;
Whether each such card is in force and, if not, why not;
Particulars of every person who has countersigned an application for an ID card or a designated document;
Particulars of every notification given by the applicant for the purposes of regulations under section 13(1) (lost, stolen and damaged ID cards etc.);
Particulars of every requirement by the Secretary of State for the individual to surrender an ID card issued to the applicant.
The information provided in connection with every application to be entered in the Register, for a modification of the contents of entry in the Register or for the issue of an ID card;
Information provided in connection with every application confirming entry in the Register (with or without change;
Particulars of the steps taken, in connection with an application mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) or otherwise, for identifying the applicant or for verifying the information provided in connection with the application;
Particulars of any other steps taken or information obtained (otherwise than in connection with an application mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b)) for ensuring that there is a complete, up-to-date and accurate entry about that individual in the Register;
Particulars of every notification given by that individual for the purposes of section 12.
A personal identification number to be used for facilitating the making of applications for information recorded in his entry, and for facilitating the provision of the information;
A password or other code to be used for that purpose or particulars of a method of generating such a password or code;
Questions and answers to be used for identifying a person seeking to make such an application or to apply for or to make a modification of that entry.
Particulars of every occasion on which information contained in the individual’s entry has been provided to a person;
Particulars of every person to whom such information has been provided on such an occasion;
Other particulars, in relation to each such occasion, of the provision of the information.

Thats infringing my liberty and giving the Govt more power.

They'll also want me to pay £50 for the privilege.

Spain has ID cards but that didn't stop the Madrid bombings.

Offline ASTAC

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2005, 09:36:57 PM »
They have proven lately that states don't have any rights...that when they are at odds with the govt..the govt will just step in legally or not.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline JB88

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2005, 09:38:12 PM »
didnt work last time.  but it set dangerous precident.
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline ASTAC

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2005, 09:43:08 PM »
If you are talking about the Shiavo case..Here is another view on that....If you look at it..or govt was set up with checks and balances...but there never really been a check of the judicial part...since there hasn't been...the judicial part of state and federal govt assumes it is autonomous...that is not the case..if they can check the executive or legislative..then the other two brances can and should be able to chech the judicial...like I said just another view on that
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline Fishu

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2005, 10:09:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chortle
Spain has ID cards but that didn't stop the Madrid bombings.


A moot point, it really isn't any crime fightning tool, let alone terrorism.

Offline Tumor

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2005, 10:14:50 PM »
I'm going to invest in Kleenex.
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline JB88

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2005, 10:19:31 PM »
its not a tooooma!!! - ahnold.

:)
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2005, 10:22:27 PM »
If I don't want one, can I not get one?

Will it prevent me from doing anything I can currently do? Why?

I see no need for one. If there is no need, it is bad in my eyes.
-SW

Offline Tumor

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Tangent to to JB88's Passport post: National ID cards
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2005, 10:24:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
its not a tooooma!!! - ahnold.

:)


I only vaguely remember hearing that one before. :lol
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann