Author Topic: Infringment of free speech or protection from school shootings?  (Read 275 times)

Offline Gunslinger

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I found this a real interesting story.  I have to say I agree with both sides really.  On one hand you have parents and police worried about another bloody school shooting.

On the other you have a young man writing his private thaughts in a journal....IE....Free Speech!

NOW,  The kicker, to me, about this story is this:  "allegedly trying to recruit fellow students he called "soldiers" to participate in a school shooting"

If this be the case than he crossed the line from writing his thoughts to acting on them...aledgedly of course.

What do you guys think

 
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Is Writing About a School Shooting a Crime?

Thursday, April 07, 2005



WINCHESTER, Ky. — Police in Winchester, Ky., say Winston Poole would have been the nation's next school shooter, had they not intervened.

"All the bells and whistles went off on this case," said Steven Caudill, a detective with the Winchester Police Department. "Our No. 1 goal is crime prevention and law enforcement, not just here in our community. But the nation as a whole. All the warning signs were here in our community. We saw it. We acted on it."

Poole, 18, has been charged with terroristic threatening for allegedly trying to recruit fellow students he called "soldiers" to participate in a school shooting (search). His grandmother turned him in after finding his journal.

"He was talking about taking over the high school and when it was all done, that everybody would be laying" on the ground, said Poole's grandmother, Joyce Craft. "You have to stop and think that these things can happen. If somebody sees it coming, or has some suspicions, then they need to report it. I could not let this go by."

Police said Poole is a legitimate threat and they read excerpts from his journal to show just that at his preliminary court hearing.

"They yelled, 'kill them.' All the soldiers of Zone 2 started shooting. They are dropping all of them. Then after five minutes, all the people are laying on the ground, dead," Poole wrote in his journal.

Poole's lawyer said the journal was a school assignment, that Poole is passionate about horror films and that he was writing about zombies. But police said Poole didn't have a writing assignment for English class.

"The evidence has already shown publicly that this was far from any story," Caudill said. "All the evidence we seized in this case never indicated anything to indicate this was a story about zombies."

Supporters said it's not a crime to write about violence, as long as you don't act on it. A group of California First Amendment (search) supporters — unwilling to be identified — freed Poole temporarily by paying his bond.

"It was just a fiction story and everybody is just blowing it out of proportion," said Poole's friend, Anthony Rudolph.

Poole's plight has become a cause celebre on the Internet for the First Amendment movement. A Google Web search for "William Poole Winchester" nets more than 160,000 results, including a "Free William Poole" petition that says famous authors would be locked away if writing about terrorism (search) was a crime.

Poole has landed back in jail, where he's awaiting trial for showing up at an elementary school in violation of a school order. Police say the community is safer with Poole locked up. But the teen's supporters say it's dangerous to muzzle speech, regardless whether it's fact or fiction.

Click in the video box above for a complete report by FOX News' Jeff Goldblatt.


Offline BlueJ1

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Infringment of free speech or protection from school shootings?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2005, 07:51:20 PM »
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Offline ASTAC

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Infringment of free speech or protection from school shootings?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2005, 08:00:17 PM »
When at school and often at home..as a parent I don't always believe that children have the same rights as adults...they are Children and have to follow rules.....automatically giving them all rights  is part of the problem in this country with courts and government undermining parents authority.

The problem with this case is the "kid" is 18..However the dumbprettythang should know better than to write that sort of stuff with all the stuff that has happened in the past few years with school violence.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline Gunslinger

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Infringment of free speech or protection from school shootings?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2005, 08:07:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ASTAC
When at school and often at home..as a parent I don't always believe that children have the same rights as adults...they are Children and have to follow rules.....automatically giving them all rights  is part of the problem in this country with courts and government undermining parents authority.

The problem with this case is the "kid" is 18..However the dumbprettythang should know better than to write that sort of stuff with all the stuff that has happened in the past few years with school violence.


But having not acted on it do you feel just writing the stuff is criminal?  (not saying I agree just askin)

Offline ASTAC

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Infringment of free speech or protection from school shootings?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2005, 08:09:44 PM »
Who knows if and when he would have acted on it...thats what makes it dangerous...Anything a student at a school writes like that should be looked in to. Maybe not have him arrested..that was probrably going too far...and may just fuel him further if he did have the intent on carrying it out.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline Gunslinger

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Infringment of free speech or protection from school shootings?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2005, 08:12:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ASTAC
Who knows if and when he would have acted on it...thats what makes it dangerous...Anything a student at a school writes like that should be looked in to. Maybe not have him arrested..that was probrably going too far...and may just fuel him further if he did have the intent on carrying it out.


Totally agree

If he was "recruiting" for it than he went too far.  Something like this requires close attention and counsling.  It's pretty sad though that kids today have that many worries that they have to do crap like this.

Offline lasersailor184

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Infringment of free speech or protection from school shootings?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2005, 10:20:12 PM »
Are we now guilty of a crime we haven't committed yet?
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Offline Gunslinger

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Infringment of free speech or protection from school shootings?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2005, 10:36:17 PM »
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Are we now guilty of a crime we haven't committed yet?


well I guess the courts will decide.  If this kid was "recruiting" other kids for a plan that is in fact conspiracy.

now on the flip side if they had strong evidence this was going to take place but couldnt arrest the kid for any crimes and it was worse than columbine, what do you think would happen then?

Offline Silat

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Infringment of free speech or protection from school shootings?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2005, 10:38:30 PM »
Free speech doesnt include getting others to comment violence...

Try yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and see how far a defense of freedom of speech gets you.
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Offline lasersailor184

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Infringment of free speech or protection from school shootings?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2005, 10:52:43 PM »
We don't know all of this case and what is true.


It's not a crime to write a story.  But it is a crime to start collecting people to act upon it.


Major MINORITY REPORT action going on here.
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Offline Gunslinger

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Infringment of free speech or protection from school shootings?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2005, 11:27:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184


Major MINORITY REPORT action going on here.



I have to disagree with you.  Don't we want to prevent shool shootings?  If they prevented a shooting this is good police work and honest parenting.  If not I feel bad for the kid.

The cops say he was recruiting and that is a crime so I guess it's up to the courts.

Offline FUNKED1

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Infringment of free speech or protection from school shootings?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2005, 11:37:30 PM »
Lasersailor the legal concept of conspiracy is nothing new.