Brown's Dora speed account 453 mph?!

[agent 009]

From flight journal.

The Dora 9 was one of the finest piston-engine fighters I have ever flown; it ranks among my top five with the Spitfire XIV, the Grumman Bearcat, the Hawker Sea Fury and the North American P-51D Mustang IV. It had all the handling qualities of the A-series, and its performance was outstanding. Top speed was 426mph (685km/h) at 21,500 feet (6,500m) and 357mph (574km/h) at sea level. Initial rate of climb was 3,500 feet per minute, and its service ceiling was 40,000 feet. With an MW-50 water/methanol injection, it reached a speed of 453mph (730km/h). Seven hundred Doras were produced, but a shortage of pilots and aviation fuel during this period (the fall of 1944) meant that the Dora's full military potential was never utilized.

This is not the 1st time I've seen this speed listed for D-9. Perhaps the one he flew had updated, ( 15% more efficient ), propellor & mw boost. As well C3 fuel.

 Can someone go over the c3 fuel topic. Did it also go into D-9's? pressure boost kit also something I'd like to hear more about.

[Glasses]

If I recall correctly the first batch of doras didn't have any  type of emergency injection system second batch had C3 injection and after '45 all 190s were made with MW50 standard.

[Naudet]

453mph is the speed for the D12/13 with the JUMO213E at around 30k.

Max speed for a D9 using a JUMO213A is ~430mph at around 18k.

[MiloMorai]

agent 009,

I would you suggest you get the Dora book by Dietmar Hermann.



This book covers the complete development history of those variants of the Focke-Wulf Fw 190 powered by inline engines. The first Fw 190 equipped with a Daimler Benz liquid-cooled engine took to the air in early 1942, followed six months later by another powered by a Jumo 213.

Production of the Fw 190 C, Fw 190 D and Ta 153 was delayed by the German air ministry. Not until 1944, by which time Germany had lost control of the air, did the Fw 190 D-9, an interim fighter powered by the Jumo 213 A, enter production.

The Fw 190 D-9 proved an immediate success, largely due to an excellent prototype test program under Dipl.Ing. Hans Sander. The type quickly entered service with the Luftwaffe and more than 1,700 examples were completed by the end of the war. The Fw 190 D-9 gave rise to a number of improved variants with the more powerful Jumo 213 F engine and a heavier armament, however only a handful of the D-11 and D-13 versions were completed.

With a maximum speed of 750 km/h, the Fw 190 D-12 powered by the new Jumo 213 EB would have represented the apex of Fw 190 development. The proposed Fw 190 D-14 and D-15, both powered by improved versions of the dive-bombers 603, came too late to see service with the Luftwaffe.

[agent 009]

The D-13 was tested against a Tempest right after war. It, ( without boost ), was found to be faster at medium & high altitudes. With boost it was postulated that it would have been faster at all altitudes.

What then was the "real" top speed of the Tempest? I think Clostermann mentioned hitting 460 mph in his.

[Gianlupo]

Milo, I think you have mistyped in your post: it should be 700 exemplars, not 1700. Is it right?

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Gianlupo
Milo, I think you have mistyped in your post: it should be 700 exemplars, not 1700. Is it right?

That was a copy/paste from a web site that sold the book.

Crumpp posted a document which showed 1826 produced for Dora 9, 11, 13.

[agent 009]

Remember, different Dora's will have different speeds. The more efficient prop will affect speed, as will A & A-1 motors.  & whether C3 was used or not. There are probably a few different speeds for dora.

[Naudet]

Agent, may i ask from which sources you have those info about the tested D13?

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Naudet
Agent, may i ask from which sources you have those info about the tested D13?

It is in Hermann's book starting on pg 158. The pilot of the D-13 was Heinz Lange, though he says it was a D-9.

...........

Naudet,

do you have any info on the radiators fitted to the Doras? I have been told there was 2 types.

[Naudet]

Hi Milo,

i know the part in Hermanns book, i own it and i'd say it's the new reference book about the D-Series.
But that mockcombat only rated the planes almost equal, with Lange stating that he was able to gain on the tempest finally.

Now to the radiators. I think the D9 had the same radiator over the entire production line, but the radiator was somewhat changed with the installation of the JUMO213E & F for the D12/13.
If i remember correctly some infos about that are mentioned in "Yello 10".

I will look that up.

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Naudet
Hi Milo,

i know the part in Hermanns book, i own it and i'd say it's the new reference book about the D-Series.
But that mockcombat only rated the planes almost equal, with Lange stating that he was able to gain on the tempest finally.

Now to the radiators. I think the D9 had the same radiator over the entire production line, but the radiator was somewhat changed with the installation of the JUMO213E & F for the D12/13.
If i remember correctly some infos about that are mentioned in "Yello 10".

I will look that up.

I would expect you to have the book.

.....

On the radiators:

- segmented ring radiator
- annular radiator

[Naudet]

So looked it up, according to yellow 10 all D-Models (9, 11-13) had the same radiator.

It was only considered to install a TA152 like one.

- segmented ring radiator
- annular radiator

Yes, i remember to have read about both types of radiators, i even can recall to have seen a picture in a book.
Now the problem in which of all the FW190 and TA152 books. Will try to find it on the coming WE.

[agent 009]

Hi Milo. I read it in a Dora book at a hobby shop. Forget title. It did say the longnose successfully engaged Tempest in turning battle, one must assume that means outturned it. I specifically recall the pilot saying speeds were similiar down low, but as we gained altitude the longnose had the speed advantage. It had no boost. I also remember it being a D-13. Wish I had the book at hand.

[agent 009]

What else can I recall. It was a Canadian pilot vs a German, & the Longnose had armament removed, naturally as it was just after V-E day.

Must've been a D-13 as I don't believe a D-9 could outrun a Tempest.