Cowardice?

[Sandman]

Cowardice? Hardly...

If you take a look at what they've done, it's amazing. The brilliance of the plan, the courage of those that implemented it, the sheer audacity to even attempt it.

We must respond in kind with the same ferocity, courage and brilliance.

I fully and truly believe that we are up to the task, but we cannot underestimate the courage, intelligence or resolve of our enemy.

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]

[Skuzzy]

Only a coward attacks those who cannot defend themselves.

I think they fully qualify to be called cowards.

[R4M]

Sandman, to call such a barbaric action "Brilliant" is a bit out of bounds.

However is not even brilliant. Its even NOT original (read tom clancy's "Honor Debt"). Any stupid after 2 months of FS2000 professional can direct a 767 to crash into a building.

The kidnapping part is still to be investigated. How did the terrorists get those plane's controls is somethign I still dont understand (moreover with the US airport security). But if terrorists figure out a way to smuggle a weapon into a plane, the other parts are easy to do.

[Pepe]

So true...

They are heartless, coldblooded villains with no ethics or moral standards that I can possibly understand. But they were not cowards, stupid or mad. The sooner we realize that, the better we will be able to picture what is the real threat.

Nice heads up, Sandman

[Maverick]

Sandman,

An act of terror IS cowardice. Committing suicide in order to "gain heaven" especially without a declaration of war by killing civilains is also the mark of a coward. They didn't try to take on those who could fight back. They chose to kill the helpless. Hardly the act of courage.

Mav

[Sandman]

To take four aircraft in the United States in a single day is not the act of a stupid people. This was well planned and well executed.

I think it was the Cherokee or possibly the Sioux that believed you can measure your strength by the might of your enemy. Only weak countries have weak foes.

I knew when I posted this that it would be taken the wrong way. Don't get me wrong, whoever did this deserves our hatred.

As for courage, I look to McVeigh... a complete coward that didn't have the conviction to die and make the ultimate sacrifice for his cause. He ran away from the bombing like a criminal.

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]

[Pepe]

Don't miss Sandman's point.

Apart from the "brilliant" word, that for sure hurts, I think it is crucial that all of us understand what we are facing.

I honestly think this is the prelude of WWIII. As somebody said, this will not be a conventional one. No one can attack US & allies, or US alone on a conventional way. Terrorism is the only way to really hurt us. You can insult the enemy, but one thing you should never do is let that insults blind you. We are facing a threat to our way of life, and our way of thinking. That is quite the same all over western countries.

These beasts will do whatever it takes (let it be killing civilians no matter if they use an airplane, a chemical, a biological or whatever weapon within his means) to overcome us. They are ready to face self-anihilation and now we tragically know they CAN organize and arrange complex plans. Do you feel better calling them cowards? So be it. I rather call them ENEMY.

These people has the willing and the means to do terrible, and I mean terrible, things. Wether they are cowards, villains, stupid, tards, whatever... is irrelevant. The only important thing is to realize that there are 2 clear sides on this issue. One is evident, vulnerable. The other one is sneaky and criminal. We must prepare and be ready. And the first task to success is knowing your enemy. We have a small taste of them in Spain. Let me tell you they are not stupid, and they are not cowards. They are evil.

[MadBirdCZ]

I honestly don't see any briliance behind this attack... Anyone who has read Tom Clancy's books can come up with such a plan! I just jan't understand what is so important that so many innicent people have been murdered for it?  

[Skuzzy]

I stand by what I said.  Courage is found in those who are willing to stare in the eyes of thier enemies, knowing either may prevail.

Cowardice is commiting suicide in the hope of murdering thousands of innocent, unarmed people.

This was a blatant act of cowardice.  No matter how it got to this point.  That is irrelevant.  The act itself screams cowardice.

Understanding the enemy is paramount to defeating them.  We know they have zero value for human life, they will not fight with any amount of honor, they consider suicide a good thing, they will not hesitate to murder children, women, or whoever they can that cannot fight back....hmmm,..did I leave out anything?

[R4M]

Originally posted by Skuzzy:
did I leave out anything?

Huhm. Yes. that hopefully they soon will be dead.

If this action is over with the four aircraft crashes and the bomb car in washington, I must add that they are both quite smart and immensely stupid. Smart because the plan was well coordinated and planned. Stupid because whoever he has done it has earned the world's hatred forever.

Terrorist actions are supposed to have the objective of winning a goal thru the use of terror and chantage. He who has done this has just won an accelerated travel to hell.

[Sandman]

First, I agree with you MadBird... it's tragic.

But, it's one thing to read it in a Clancy book. It's quite another to go out and do it. I'm quite sure that Clancy left out many of the details that these people had to be aware of in order to accomplish this attack.

The media would have us believe that we are weak and vulnerable and that this is incredibly easy. Were it so, this would have happened long ago (and often).

[Pepe]

Couple of important things, Skuzzy:

a) They are organized.
b) They have money.
c) They can identify & exploit weak points.


That's, IMHO, the scary things.

I think the act itself is from a diferent nature than coward. The ones doing it and the ones planning it have to have a pervert mind. It's more than coward or, if you want, it's not only coward. I don't think they being cowards/corageous is the important thing. They are the enemy. I, personally, want them dead, wether they are cowards or not.

[Skuzzy]

You are right Pepe.  Just got my dandruff up when Sandman inferred they were courageous.  Nothing against you Sandman, I am, as many are, pretty upset and I tend to get vocal when I get upset.

[Eagler]

if they'd had REAL balls they'd crashed MacDill or some other AF base. A military target, something that could have defended itself...

chicken toejam women and children murders - organized,yes - funded, yes - but still chicken toejams!

[Sandman]

No worries Skuzzy. I knew this post would push a few buttons.

I look at it simply as this... giving your life in support of a cause takes courage.

Courage in battle is a hard thing to get your hands around. It's really easy to say it takes courage to look your opponent in the eye and then run him through with your bayonet. Absolutely, no argument. But it also took courage for our B17 crews to fly over Tokyo or Berlin and carpet bomb. The fact that many civilians were also killed doesn't diminish the resolve required to complete the task. We believe our cause was just.

Whoever did this views the U.S. as the enemy. I'm certain that they believe there cause is just. Their belief is as irrelevant to us as ours is to them.

Make sense?