Author Topic: New (large) Map  (Read 1466 times)

Offline XtrmeJ

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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2005, 06:20:38 AM »
Way to totally make the guy who made this map feel good about his work... :aok

Offline Shane

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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2005, 06:26:06 AM »
my bad.

i'll print out a copy and post it on the fridge.
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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2005, 06:31:29 AM »
Agree on the FH-VH=VH=FH layout -- great idea. Good fights over bishland last pm.

It is weird to see the towns so far away, but hey -- it's DIFFERENT. And Different means new tactics are gunna emerge, and new countertactics.

This is good.

Bases may change hands back and forth a lot.  Small oceans mean lots of fleet flying, and quicker action after respawn.

THose are jsut first reactions. Let's be serious -- anything as complex as a map can't be analysed in 5 minutes. The peices are on the board, but their implications and permutations are gunna take a few cycles to appreciate.

As far as I'm concerned, KUDOS to the mapmaker, and vive le difference!!
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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2005, 06:41:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by sullie363
Correct, the few sectors with players are packed.  Most of the map is empty because there's no reason to fly to the middle of nowhere.




Same thing happens with LOTS of AH2 maps. Hardest thing about small maps is their tendency to have only 2 or 3 "contact points" per front. Just look at the DARs on Lake Uterus, or even (to lesser degree) Baltic.

Allowing for that, who cares if there are only 2 places where people CAN fight (ie LAke Uterus), versus only 2 places wherre people DO fight? At least with the latter situation (like this map so far) those so inclined can try to milk run/Buff hunt if they so desire.
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Offline Zazen13

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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2005, 07:18:14 AM »
I am too lazy to dig up the thread but we had a debate awhile back about the proximity of the field to the town. The thinking was that if the field and the town were far enough apart it would make CAP'ing the field (ie:vulching) and CAP'ing the town, simulataneously, very difficult for all but a very large/organized attacking force. This, in effect, would divide the attacking force making it far more likely the defenders would be afforded opportunities to successfully up from that field and mount a persistant defense. As it is now on the conventional maps, the field and the town are so close even a relatively small attacking force can effectively CAP the field (ie: vulch) and CAP the town, simultaneously, without much difficulty just by virtue of their proximity.

In the same thread it was proposed by myself that if the spacing were increased between the field and town it would require either the town have its own VH or the field VH would require a spawn point to the town to maintain a cohesive combined arms defense. Generally speaking though, the consensus was that greater town/field spacing would generate far more opportunities to have pitched battles, less opportunity for vulchfests, and mitigate the steamroll effect to some degree.

The greater spacing and subsequent division of the attacking force also should lead to its greater vulnerability to its CAP being broken by those defenders that come from a nearby support field. For example, with 10 attackers, theoretically 5 will be CAP'ing the base (ie: vulching) and 5 will be CAP'ing/destroying the town. So, if two or three defenders from a nearby base come with some altitude it's conceivable they could rather easily break CAP on either the town or the field making a successfull base capture highly unlikely. However, on the conventional maps, the same 10 person attacking force simultaneously CAP'ing both the town and the field would be far less vulnerable to having their CAP broken by the same 2 or 3 defenders coming from a nearby support field just from an odds standpoint. In effect, greater spacing should provide generally better 'localized' odds for the defending force even if outnumbered overall, thus the potential for the mitigation of the steamroll effect and likelihood of more relatively even pitched battles (ie: less lop-sided vulch-gang-bang-fests).

Zazen
« Last Edit: April 21, 2005, 08:01:09 AM by Zazen13 »
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Offline Ghosth

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« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2005, 07:58:59 AM »
I like it, it shows some well thought out changes from the same ol same ol main.


Yes you have to change a bit to adapt to it.
This is a good thing!

Had a terrific fight for over an hour last night over a port. Yes they finally got it, but it was a good fight.

It has a LOT more GV potential. (Mindinao sucks in this dept)

I also really like the new clipboard map.
MUCH easier to see elevations, and everything is not the same color green, blending into each other.

Fly it for a month, give it a chance. Then take a look at #'s online.  That will tell you the true success or failure of a map.

Offline DamnedRen

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« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2005, 08:36:15 AM »
I agree with Ghosth.

Time will tell if it works for the majority.

A real question might also be asked. How long will it take for a country to "win the war"? :)

IMHO, it looks like fun and I'm happy for the change.

Offline Edbert1

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« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2005, 08:42:49 AM »
First of all, thank you to whoever made the map, it takes a helluva lot of work and I appreciate the efforts. I have no issues with FPS or clipboard visibility and I love the topo feature.

I have to say though that this map seems to be a wet dream for anyone who likes to GV or play the tactical-win-the-unwinable-war aspect of the game. The map rooms being 15 miles away from an airfield will only encourage the milkrunners and base capture guys, I don't see this as a furball map in any way whatsoever.

Request for new maps...since the GV types get a tank town would it be possible to set up another map with a section of bases somewhere (off in a corner is fine by me) that feature no map rooms spawn points or VHs at all and indestructible FHs? These bases would not factor into the war-winning so the fun-nazis and quake fans could just leave the fighter guys alone for a change. Maybe even put a 50K wall around it somehow and diable any plane with more than two engines. keep the bases 30 miles apart, and make some field acks indestructible too to discourage vulching.

Just a thought...

Offline hammer

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« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2005, 08:44:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by sullie363
...the position of the bases cause furballs...

:rolleyes:

Heaven forbid a map that causes fights to happen. What is this world coming to?

So there were furballs going on. How did that stop you from having fun? Nothing stopped anybody who likes to bomb from bombing enemy bases. Nothing stopped GVers from fighting GV battles. And nothing stopped those who like fighter vs. fighter combat from doing so.  What did you want to do that you couldn't do? Did you want more people supporting your plan to capture base X? Run a mission. If enough people are interested, they will join. If they want to do something else, it's their $15. If people didn't want to furball, the map wouldn't matter.

Had someone last night begging people to "horde the bish" because they had the fewest people and we would roll over them and "win" the war. Nevermind there were few bish on our front and lots of good, fairly even fights going on the other.

I would submit most people care little about "winning" the war. I can't remember the last time I was on when the map was reset by anybody. I'm sure many people are in the same boat. For me, winning means I shot down the enemy fighter that was trying to shoot me down. For others it means they dropped all their bombs accurately and destroyed the targets they were aiming at. And some like to capture bases or destroy tanks. As far as I could tell, all were accomodated on this map. It was a little hard on the eyes at first, but I got used to it.

My one gripe is the towns so far from the bases. Not that it affected anything I was doing, but I don't see a town more than 10 miles from an airbase controlling operations of the airbase. I could see the requirement to own both before the airbase could be operational, though. That would add a bit more excitement.

Overall  :aok

Kudos to the creators!
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2005, 10:44:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
should i have to do that every time i log into the MA?

also, tell me a color that shows up well as friendly icon AND clip map information for "country"

dark blue looks great on the clip, but fly over water and you can't read a single enemies icon.

what magic color do you use?


Well, i put on my robe and wizard hat and this is what works for me:

Clipboard Enemy 1 = Red

Clipboard Enemy 2 = Orange (mine's kind of a "medium" orange)

Clipboard Friendly  =  Bright Purple, shows fine against water, fool with the slider until you get a gay-looking bright, luminous purple.

Enemy = Red

YMMV.
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Offline LTARokit

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« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2005, 10:47:46 AM »
Hats off to yas HTC :aok  Outstanding map.  Noticed a few bugs, but what new map doesn't.  Also little conserned about distances to town. from a GV's point of view it's hard to get to the town in a timely manner for defense against capture.  However just means coming up with a different MO.


Offline MaddogWx

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« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2005, 11:33:59 AM »
This map friggin ROCKS!  Love the terrain height colors and the distant map rooms!

Oops can I say friggin on the BBS?

.report dawgwx

LOL

HiTech for the work, Thank you

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2005, 11:54:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Well, i put on my robe and wizard hat and this is what works for me:

Clipboard Enemy 1 = Red

Clipboard Enemy 2 = Orange (mine's kind of a "medium" orange)

Clipboard Friendly  =  Bright Purple, shows fine against water, fool with the slider until you get a gay-looking bright, luminous purple.

Enemy = Red

YMMV.


Pretty close to what I did as well, except I made one enemy country the gay purple.  Now if only I could set the other one to feminine pink it would be perfect!  :lol

Offline fuzeman

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« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2005, 11:56:18 AM »
So far so good here to the maker for his time and effort.
I like the map elevations and the scale for it. No more 'where'd this mountain come from?' bomber flights.
Haven't explored it all but I'm :D

Anyone noticed any beer, squids, crop circles or UFOs yet?
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« Last Edit: April 21, 2005, 12:02:54 PM by fuzeman »
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Offline Deth7

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« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2005, 02:59:27 PM »
Great Map!!!!
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