Author Topic: BELL P-39 airocobra  (Read 1977 times)

Offline humble

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BELL P-39 airocobra
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2005, 11:51:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by spitfiremkv
humble man, you are sort of disproving yourself here. the mere fact that your so-called greenhorn pilot got seven kills in his first 25 sorties shows that he was better prepared than his adversaries and flying a better aircraft.

as for the Me109 or the 190 being superior to the P39 or P63, there's no doubt about that.


I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything....simply presenting the information I'm aware of. The "greenhorn" in question didnt survive the year. He wasnt better prepared or in a better plane he was simply flying in good company in an area where the germans had superiority. Once they moved to the Kuban bridgehead he died....like many others on both sides

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Offline humble

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« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2005, 12:04:24 AM »
As for the "superiorityof the 109 & 190....

As was written in the summary of the commander of 153d (28th Guards) IAP regarding the combat work in the Voronezh and West Fronts in July-August 1942, "The Airacobra aircraft is considered by the Germans to be the most dangerous enemy and should be engaged in combat only when they [the Germans] have numerical superiority and the advantage in altitude and surprise."

The regiment went into combat on 17 March 1943 from Korenovsk airfield, in the Kuban, as part of the 219th Bomber Division, 4th Air Army. The regiment fought in this subordination for the entire extent of the celebrated air campaign over the Kuban. It fought against the best German fighter squadrons: JG 51 (Mulders) and JG 3 (Green Hearts). During the period from 17 March to 20 August 1943, the regiment flew 1,625 combat sorties with a flight time of 2,072 hours. It conducted 111 aerial engagements, in which it shot down 167 and damaged an additional 29 enemy aircraft. Its losses were 30 Airacobras destroyed and 11 damaged.

The regiment had to face Luftwaffe aces from Udet, Green Heart, and Mulders squadrons. Already on the following day, 11 March, two P-39D-2s (138433 [11] and 446) went into repair. Nonetheless, the regiment quickly launched into the fight with the stubborn Teutons. On 23 March 8 Airacobras faced off against 30 Messerschmitts and shot down 13, losing 3 of their own. But this victory came at a terrible price. Two pilots, in order to change the course of a badly developing battle, consciously flew their damaged and burning aircraft into enemy airplanes and perished, destroying two Messers in the process. Sergeant N. Kudryashov was 19 years old and Senior Lieutenant I. Shmatko was in his twenties. B. B. Glinka was wounded in this battle-a round came straight through the cockpit of his P-39D-2, no. 138431
admittedly the "stubborn teutons" comment shows a political slant but all acounts show russian domination thruout the Kuban campaign

April aerial combats were particularly successful, when the pilots had a firmer grasp on their airplanes and tactics. During that month I. I. Babak shot down 14 fighters, Lieutenant Boris Glinka 3 fighters and 2 bombers, Senior Lieutenant Dmitriy Glinka 5 and 1, Sergeant I. Kudrya 5 and 1, Lieutenant N. Lavitskiy 1 and 2 respectively, and Senior Sergeant V. Sapyan 2 fighters. The regiment suffered losses as well, because its opponents were the "cream" of the Luftwaffe. 15 April 1943 is considered the "black day" of the regiment: D. Glinka and V. Sapyan were shot down at around 1300, and Senior Lieutenant M. Petrov and Sergeant Bezbabnov in the evening at around 1900. Erich Hartmann, a relatively new fighter pilot in III/JG 52, shot down one of the "evening" Cobras (41-38451 or 42-4606). This was the seventh kill (and first Airacobra) of the future top German ace of World War II, who finished his career in Soviet captivity with a score of 352 kills, some 345 of them on the Eastern front.

Altogether during two months of intense aerial combat over the Kuban, pilots of 45th IAP shot down 118 German aircraft, losing 7 Airacobras shot down and 8 damaged in combat or in accidents, 1 P-40E shot down and 1 destroyed in an accident. The regiment had the best results in the theater and was quickly, already by 10 May, re-equipped with new models of the Airacobra: P-39L, M, and N. The surviving intact old P-39D-2s (138416, 429, 456, and 458), P-39K, and P-40Es were handed off to the 16th Guards IAP and 298th IAP.

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Offline humble

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« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2005, 12:21:30 AM »
There is no question that the german expertain had significant combat experience and were "pilot for pilot" equal or better than any group of combat pilots...however the overall quality of the russian pilots improved very quickly. By 1942 the elite russian units gained a state of rough equality with the elite german units opposing them. The definative aviation campaign on the eastern front occured in early 1943 at the Kuban bridgehead....basically the best of the luftwaffe met the best of the VVS in a running 6 month battle from which the luftwaffe never recovered. For every Willi Batz (one of the truelygreat aces of the war) there where a number of Gehard Homoths....

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/homuth.html

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Offline agent 009

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« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2005, 12:29:17 AM »
What was highest month total on east front?, Graf 62?

Scholz, What part of Norway are you from? I am of Norwegian descent & am curious about the chicks & beer. Oh yeah and the history,  ( Vikings), & fiord photos.


P.S. what nobody interested in XP40 Q?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2005, 12:43:08 AM by agent 009 »

Offline agent 009

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« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2005, 03:13:32 AM »
Here is a bit on Lang from nuther forum. 1st kill mar 43.

Lang, on the other hand, is still in it. Yes, many of his victories were East Front, but plenty of good pilots gained their majority on that Front (Hartmann and Krupinski just to name two), and it was far from being a cakewalk. His first victories came in March 1943, way late in the war, yet by the time he died in September 1944, he had 173, including 28 (9 Spitfires, 9 P-51's, 6 P-47's, and 4 P-38's) over the Western Invasion Front alone, the highest of any German ace. This came after only 403 missions--a 1:2.3 strike rate which is ridiculously high! Among other achievements: 18, 12, and 10 Russians in single days, 68 Russians in October 1943, 33 more in November, 3 RAF Spits in 5 min., 2 USAAF P-47's in 1 min., 2 USAAF P-38's in three minutes, 4 USAAF P-51s in 1 day, never shot down until death, when landing gear of his 190 fell open in flight and was bounced by P-51's (Shoot-down went to American Ace Darrell Cramer, 7 confirmed kills), Oldest German Ace in Luftwaffe. Just on the surface! This guy takes the cake for me.

Offline bunch

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BELL P-39 airocobra
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2005, 03:24:34 AM »
sounds like a liar just as likely as not

Offline GScholz

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« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2005, 06:00:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by agent 009
Scholz, What part of Norway are you from? I am of Norwegian descent & am curious about the chicks & beer. Oh yeah and the history,  ( Vikings), & fiord photos.


Bodø - Northern Norway. Where's your family from?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2005, 06:03:03 AM by GScholz »
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2005, 06:13:42 AM »
Bodö! Well, that's in what, Tromsen or Lofoten?
Heck you're probably further north than I am (64 N).
Anyway, back to topic:
"as for the Me109 or the 190 being superior to the P39 or P63, there's no doubt about that."

I belive a 109G will have it's hands full vs a P63 down low....

Oh, and finally, Agent, where do you live?
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline GScholz

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« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2005, 06:39:28 AM »
Bodø is at 67°17'N, and is the capital of Norland County.
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storch

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« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2005, 08:03:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Bodø is at 67°17'N, and is the capital of Norland County.

we have a neighborhood here in miami called norland but it is populated by africans.

Offline GScholz

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« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2005, 08:08:19 AM »
Whoops, typo: It should be Nordland, not Norland.

Lol Storch.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline agent 009

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« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2005, 11:26:27 AM »
Where do I live, that's a good question. Currently west coast, Burbank at my sisters place. I live on road mostly. I sell art at colleges. & sell whatever is hot at malls at X-mas time. evry year, different mall.

My grandparents came from north Dakota, ended up in Utah where I grew up. Well utah & calif, both north & south.

Have they recovered the scream yet?

Offline GScholz

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« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2005, 11:39:17 AM »
I don't think so.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline agent 009

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« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2005, 12:13:47 PM »
Well nuff bout art then, how bout chicks & beer? A real cultural discussion.

Angus & Scholz, have you got a comparitive survey of which scandinavian country has the most promiscuos females?

Iceland has repealed the no alcohol in beer law no? I wonder who has best beer, Iceland or Norway.

Anyway, these are good things to know before one choose a vacation destination.

If you come to US, I might suggest Louisiana. 6.5 beer, & women fairly um shall we say open.

Offline Angus

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« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2005, 12:59:55 PM »
Well, Iceland has the classical blonde stereotype, usually wearing black.
My wife is German.
And we have Beer, since 1989. Hereabouts all alcohol is, like in Norway, VERRRRYYYY expensive.
Since most Icelandic single females are blond and getting chubbier city girls, I think I would reccomend a Norwegian country girl for ya.
So, Scholzie, the task is yours, QUEST FOR HELGA, hehe.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)