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Author Topic: Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?  (Read 1342 times)

Offline Overlag

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2005, 07:28:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by agent 009
Spain had plenty of value. Spain recieved milloins in bribes from Britain to stay out of an alliance with germany. Gibralter is the 1st obvious "value" in occupying parts of Spain. Natural recources as well. More atlantic coastal area is has obvious value.


what value does having more atlantic coast mean? its more of a negative value because they'd need to defend SO much more coastline. and taking Gibralter wouldnt have done much for them because they have almost NO ships... and any ships they do have, they was affraid to bring out into the seas
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Offline Angus

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2005, 08:15:23 AM »
Well, Gibraltar would have been tougher than Malta, and Malta was tough enough.
Basically the Med campaign was quite costly for the Germans, and it happened at a bad point, - the biggest ops in the med coincided with Stalingrad (Tunisia) and Kursk (Sicily).
The mop-up in Tunisia for instance left some 300.000 Axis Pow's, and inflicted crippling losses to their airborne transport.
The Amphibious landings at Sicily were bigger than the Amphibious landings at Normandy BTW.
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Overlag

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2005, 08:33:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
Well, Gibraltar would have been tougher than Malta, and Malta was tough enough.
Basically the Med campaign was quite costly for the Germans, and it happened at a bad point, - the biggest ops in the med coincided with Stalingrad (Tunisia) and Kursk (Sicily).
The mop-up in Tunisia for instance left some 300.000 Axis Pow's, and inflicted crippling losses to their airborne transport.
The Amphibious landings at Sicily were bigger than the Amphibious landings at Normandy BTW.



really?

i always thought history books say normandy was the biggest ever? hmmm
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Offline Angus

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2005, 08:40:58 AM »
Normandy = biggest total landing
Sicily = biggest amphibious landing

AFAIK.

Was a bit baffled myself when I read up on Sicily. Hadn't known how big it was.
Normandy, of course had a much bigger muscle behind the initial landing anyway.

BTW, Okinawa was really big too.

One little fact also. The Axis armies, save the Japanese, never did much of this.
And another one, look at the length of supply lines it took from Britain to N-Arica vs from Italy/Sicily to the same location. Awesome difference isn't it. Tells one all about how really hard pressed the Axis were already getting in 1942/43.
From the Geographic point of view, they should have won.
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Overlag

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2005, 08:46:42 AM »
all about supplys tho... not a unlimited supply like we have in AHII ;)
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Offline GScholz

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2005, 08:58:44 AM »
A big boulder would do the job.
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Offline Angus

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2005, 06:56:46 PM »
Did you see DAS BOOT?
Cool when they were getting through the strait, the current being with them meant there was no way back submerged.

But still, there were aces of the deep in the med as well. I recall a British Aircraft carrier being sunk very close to Gibraltar. Ark Royal?

Well, anyway, Gibraltar was an important strategig front. Now, being supplied only by sea, the Germans would have seen very much trouble, had they grabbed the pie.

BTW, Spitfires flew from Gib to Algiers with a slipper tank for fuel.
(double range approx.)
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Rino

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2005, 07:05:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
germany did ask spain if they could move german troops through spain to take gibralter, spain said no.


     Canaris told Franco to say no ;)
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Offline Pongo

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2005, 08:30:50 PM »
Hitlers focus was east.
If you have troops in spain then Gibralter is more like corrigigor then malta. Very hard to take from a disance but not so hard from 5? miles away.
I dont think that taking gibralter was neccesary to take Malta though. They could have taken malta with the troops they wasted in crete.
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Offline agent 009

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2005, 02:45:13 AM »
Well Overlag. Taking Gibralter means no British ships in west med. That means resupplying Malta & Egypt is done by going all the way around Africa. This alone is great value to German war effort.

I don't believe taking Gibratler is harder than malta as Malta has to be taken by air, & Gibralter by land.

As for Germany having no ships. Sharnhorst, Gneisenau, Prinz eugen, Admiral Scheer all went into Atlantic. As did the numerous raiders & blockade runners. Gibralter would make a great base for these ships.

German destroyers operated off French atlantic bases. Having gibralter offers even better base for such operations as it is far away from British bomber bases on south british coast.

Having extra coastline means more safe places to land captures, ( captured ships ), as well as more resupply bases for surface ships & U-boats. Condor bases could also be built along coast of Spain & Portugal.

It also means possible landings in Azores can be done with more ease.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2005, 02:54:23 AM by agent 009 »
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Offline BlauK

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2005, 05:26:10 AM »
« Last Edit: April 26, 2005, 05:36:18 AM by BlauK »
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Offline agent 009

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2005, 01:50:23 AM »
Wow, good stuff Blauk. read through it, not every word, but very informative. Hitlers invasion of Ireland ploy was amusing. How does Finnish Chocolate stack up to Swiss?
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Offline BlauK

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2005, 03:08:32 AM »
"Fazer blue" chocolate is superior IMO, but it is a matter of taste ;)
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  BlauKreuz - Lentolaivue 34      

Offline agent 009

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2005, 06:59:40 PM »
Yes ETO chocolate is superior. Finland vodka among best in world.
Wish there were a site on the Finnish 109 that was in the works when war ended.
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Offline BlauK

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Gibralter taken, med sealed, malta?
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2005, 07:28:15 AM »
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