Now the US knows the horror of 'home-front' terrorism...

[AKDejaVu]

Whether your brother/sister/son/daughter/father/mother was killed in a terrorist attack that killed 20 people or 20,000, I bet the pain isn't any different. I bet the bitter hate is as powerful. That is what we must remember.

I bet the pain on an individual basis isn't any different.  I bet that on a national/world level it is.

The loss of a life is not an insugnificant event.  I'm not trying to pretend it is.  But to be honest, people have grown used to "3 people killed in a car bombing" types of reports.  The US has grown accustomed to "another American embassy/plane/ship/baracks" has been attacked.

This event has changed the view on terrorism for everyone.  It is not the "standard... what we are used to" type of situation.  It highlights that terrorists are not content and are willing to expand their horizons.

Once again Dowding... the US knows about terrorism.  Its nothing new to us.  This event was an eye opener for the whole world.

 

EagleC followed his traditional line of ignorance:

tell me what do you know about Africa ?

What do you need to know?  That they currently have it worse down there than we do?  That entire villages are slaughtered by whatever group seems to be desiring power that day?  That some of my co-workers were victims of machette wielding madmen down there?  That our troops have been attacked down there for trying to deliver supplies?  That power mongers would rather let food sit and rot than be distributed to starving people?

What?

Do you mean to tell me this reflects on the activities of the IRA in England in any way shape or form?  Maybe you can tell me what anyone is doing about Africa's problems in Europe or Asia.

 

btw.: i heard few words from citizen of London today ... you should visit them  

Um... huh?

AKDejaVu

--------------------

[Ripsnort]

Deja:"Once again Dowding... the US knows about terrorism. Its nothing new to us. This event was an eye opener for the whole world."

Amen Brother!

[Steven]

I can't remember when it was, but about 10 years ago or more I missed by about an hour being a witness to a car bombing here in San Diego (outside a mall in La Jolla) that killed some high ranking USN man's wife.  America is aware of terrorism and don't ever imply anything similar again.

However, Tuesday the anty was upped and thus the response too.  

"May God have mercy on you, we will not."  -McCain

-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels

[Eaglecz]

well what was my goal about note for AKDejaVu


Im not in shock by the fact that US has been attacked by terrorist.

Where attack was and how has been done, how many people die is else theme.

Thats all . Do you already see what im saying ?

btw.: check some comments from leaders of Interpol....
they have a bit more experience with thinks like this then we all have.

note about africa.: 500.000 people die in 7 days in Rvanda that was shock...

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: EagleC ]

[Dowding]

Don't try and turn this into some puerile "We've suffered more than you" competition, Deja. Please give me some credit - you know damned well that is not my intention.

I stand by what I say; terrorism is terrorism and when it's on your own soil your attitude changes.

The event has changed everyone's perception of terrorism.

[AKDejaVu]

EagleC... you need to learn many things judging by your posts here and in another thread.

The main one being:  Learn the difference between civil war and terrorism.  Maybe then, you can begin to understand why this act is different from what is happening in Ruanda.

To be honest... I don't have much hope for you when it comes to learning.

AKDejaVu

[straffo]

Orel please read this thread :
 http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=003082

and do like me : Stop posting until you are pretty SURE to be clearly undertand.

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: straffo ]

[AKDejaVu]

Don't try and turn this into some puerile "We've suffered more than you" competition, Deja. Please give me some credit - you know damned well that is not my intention.

Sigh... I am not trying to say that Dowding.  I am simply saying that we have suffered in the past both at home and abroad.  This is nothing new to us.  Its not an attempt to be comparative.

But, you must remember... this is a country that recently witnessed a car-bomb take out an entire Federal building killing hundreds of people.  We've recently witnessed an attack on a naval vessel that killed 41 people.  This building itself has been the target of previous terrorist acts. This is different.

We've recently witnessed attacks on our embassies abroad.  For those attacks, we retaliated with missile strikes.  Do you know how many nations condemned that retaliation?  How many nations do you think would condemn any retaliation for this event?

We have always been ready to deal with terrorism.  It hasn't been the US saying "you really shouldn't be that harsh".  Do you suppose this situation might cause other nations to actually see the light?  Do you know why this event would do that whereas so many others that have occured all over the world in the past have not?

Think about it Dowding.  Think about it very hard before comparing it to past events in some kind of "its all the same" manner.

 

I stand by what I say; terrorism is terrorism and when it's on your own soil your attitude changes.

Sigh.

We've had it on our soil before.  That is not the issue.

Let me ask you this:  Do you think the rest of the world's attitude towards terrorism may have changed just a tad bit?  We've been criticized for being too harsh with our responses in the past... do you think that will happen this time?

Tell me again how its all the same.  Tell me again how its only our attitude on terrorism that has changed.  Tell me again that the rest of the world has been ready to do something but we've been holding them back because we really didn't understand.  Please Dowding... condescend to us some more.

 

AKDejaVu

[Ripsnort]

Hmm, edit.

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]

[funkedup]

Steven I was there too.  Her husband was the captain of the ship that shot down the Iranian airliner.  She was in a VW van Northbound on Genessee at the La Jolla Village Drive intersection, right in front of UTC.  She lived, only because the bomb fizzled.  I was driving by on LJVD as the fire trucks arrived, and assumed it was just a typical VW engine fire...

[Dowding]

Let's keep it friendly.

 

Do you know how many nations condemned that retaliation?

Who condemned them? Russia, China, North Korea? It's the same States over and over - more for internal political reasons than anything else. The will of the leading elements to look 'tough', and follow a kind of tradition of resistance against the US.

I'm almost 100% sure NATO countries have supported the US in every counter-operation in recent times.

Britain helped the strikes against Gadaffi, for instance.

 

How many nations do you think would condemn any retaliation for this event?

The usual suspects would dislike it. Iraq of course; Pakistan would be against an attack on Afghanistan.

But the Western world has not changed its stance. Terrorism has to be confronted - that has not changed.

[AKDejaVu]

But the Western world has not changed its stance. Terrorism has to be confronted - that has not changed.

Confrontation isn't the issue.  They level is.  Do you believe that the reprocussions from this would be similar to anything that has happened in the past?

And in the past.. there were always the handfull of European countries that speak out against US (and British) retaliation.  Some even forbid us to use their airspace as a result of it (you mentiond Kaddafi?).

The US has always believed in retaliation for these types of acts.  They have not stopped other countries from retaliating, nor have they spoken out against retaliation.  The recent events in Israel come to mind... and thus some Palestinian's reaction to this tragedy.

Terrorism has happened on our soil before.  Terrorism has happened in most European countries at some time or another.  When has someone even considered what is being considered right now?  Israel is the only one that comes to mind.  All others are willing to accept small loses in order to prevent major conflict.

That attitude is about to change around the world.  It has nothing to do with "home-front".  It has everything to do with severity.

So... when you say "Now the US knows the horror of 'home-front' terrorism" you imply that this is a new subject for us.  It is not.

When you say "terrorism is terrorism and when it's on your own soil your attitude changes." you imply that this is only a tragedy to us because it happened in America.  Do you really believe that we would not have been impacted if it happened in another country?

AKDejaVu

[CyranoAH]

When you say "terrorism is terrorism and when it's on your own soil your attitude changes." you imply that this is only a tragedy to us because it happened in America. Do you really believe that we would not have been impacted if it happened in another country?

Frankly... sadly... yes. Had it happened in Ethiopia, Pakistan, or some other place with less media coverage, people would have shaken their heads, said "horrible, horrible", and that's it...

I could tell you about terrorist attacks here in Spain that you haven't heard of... people died... some in a VERY cruel manner, but it's simply not good enough for international news.

The constructive thing here is that since such a tremendous and barbaric act has been commited against such a powerful and mediatic nation, we will all benefit from that. Terrorism is now the great evil of the beginning of the 21st century.

Now let's get rid of it.

Daniel, aka Cyrano

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: CyranoAH ]

[AKDejaVu]

Frankly... sadly... yes. Had it happened in Ethiopia, Pakistan, or some other place with less media coverage, people would have shaken their heads, said "horrible, horrible", and that's it...

This would not have happend in those countries.  You might as well just leave Africa out of it.  The West has given up the struggle down there long ago.  There needs to be some internal settling there before terrorism is actually a viable threat.

Now.. what if it would have happened in England, France or Germany?  Would those countries be saying "We're used to it... its happened here before"?  Would NATO still be responding in the same manner?

There is a reason that we don't hear about many of the events that are occuring in Spain right now.  Much like there is a reason we do not hear much about IRA bombings in England.  Much like there is a reason you don't hear about many civil strife issues in the US.  Those are internal.  We/They are countries trying to make due with what they are given in spite of volotile combinations.

This event transcends that to a degree that is unparalled.  Wars have been started for significantly less.

AKDejaVu

[Steven]

OH yeah..

<<<For years just about every European democracy has had to deal with terrorism in some form. France has Algerian extremists, Spain has the Basque separatists, and Britain has the IRA.>>>

Terrorism from within is slightly different than that from across oceans.  We do not have the trouble within like some other countries, but we do have small factions that pose problems.  However, if some segment of America was to rise up to pursue acts of terror against its own, I don't think we'd be asking the UK or Spain or whoever else to assist with military action.  It's a bit different.  In fact, we do have our religious nutcases waiting for space ships or holing up in Waco and we have mail bombings and abortion clinic bombings and govt building bombings.  Don't compare apples and oranges.

And also, as someone else pointed out in regards to other people's comments...do not confuse civil wars with terrorism from abroad too.

(grrr, I should really proof read what I type...sorry.)

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Steven ]