Author Topic: Damage bug  (Read 480 times)

Offline Kev367th

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Damage bug
« on: May 03, 2005, 04:09:50 PM »
Sure everyone is getting fed up with the following -

1 ping =
P51 - Rad gone
Tiff - Oil gone
P38 - Pilot wound

Numerous others but these seem to dominate, and it's irrespective of angle or direction of shot.

Why a bug? OK, try de-acking a field with a F6F, 1 ack ping = loss of one gun same wing 90% of the time.

Either a bug, OR the damage model is more basic than I believed it was.

All ties in with aircraft strafing main cruiser guns to death, yeah sure. Point me to one historical instance of an aircraft strafing main guns (with 20-30mm) on a cruiser and disabling them.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 04:16:39 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline Kweassa

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Damage bug
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2005, 05:51:55 PM »
First, the last tidbit you decided to add was completely irrelevant. You wouldn't want HT to think you've got issues with how they make their game.


 Second, what you see does not dominate. It is highly likely that you are constantly seeing certain type of damage under always the same type of conditions, indicating that you are making the same mistake over and over again.
 
* The single most vulnerable, and yet exposed part on the P-51D? The rads. Nothing to be surprised about that.

* Same with the Typh - huge bulbous cooler under its chin that is visible for miles. How can it not be vulnerable, or more or less even 'constant' in damage?

* The P-38s have a cockpit that is separated from the fuselage, and doesn't have the engine block out in front. It is certainly vulnerable.

* As the matter of F6Fs, I do a lot of field attacks in them. I get all kinds of damage. Not just one gun.

 

 You'll need a series of controlled tests and evidences, to even remotely have some credibility in going so far as to say that these issues are bugs. From the looks of it, it sure doesn't seem like a bug to me.

Offline Kev367th

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Damage bug
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2005, 07:04:01 PM »
Would agree Kweassa, unfortuneately things don't just pan out the way your suggesting.

Yes they are more vulnerable, but the damage occurs from all angles, which means for a tiff a rear shot passes through the fuselage, prob through the cockpit and still gets the oil.

For the P38, been enough people complaining about the pilot wound thing.

As for the F6F, thats just the way it works, one gun on same wing is first to go. Try it, its quite funny, take a ping, you know whats gone - 1 gun.

As I said it's not so much they get damaged, but that the damage occurs irrespective of angle or direction of shot or what is in-between.

Yes, I would say these dominate.

OK fair enough on the CV comment. It's true though.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 07:07:05 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline Kweassa

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Damage bug
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2005, 08:32:46 PM »
How would that any different from pilots in armoured seats still getting killed from 6 oc attacks due to penetration? Remember that most of the fuselage is hollow one way or another.

 The P-38 fans whine about everything :D remember? They whined about it being porked in early AH1, they whined about glass tails in later versions, they whined about the flaps too.

 Joke aside, not a single person who complained about the P-38 ever brought up any evidence regarding to their claims.

 There are a lot of factors in work here - one especially, which people don't seem to think much about, is that the hit detection has changed with AH2, and a lot of people are shrugging hits off which in AH1 they'd have died from, due to pilots death or plane explosion. As a result in AH2, a lot of more lead fly through the air, and especially if a HMG armed plane is chasing down a P-38, it has to shoot more than it used to.

 In AH1, they'd have simply died. In AH2, they are surviving, albeit with a pilot wound.


  As for the F6F, there are so many variables intertwined that its hard to tell what you're seeing to what just you describe. I'm pretty aggressive in trying to push my team mates into fields and actively suppressing it when flying CV ops, so I got a lot of damage in F6Fs over the years. Gun breaks, pilot wounds, oil bursts, gear busts, rear section falling off, etc etc.

 If you are constantly getting a certain type of damage, then it has a lot to do with you being constantly in the same conditions as the last time you got that damage. For instance, in my experience the type of damage you get is pretty common when I'm strafing an ack. It takes a lot of HMG rounds now to get precise hits on ack, and you are longer exposed to ack fire than you were in AH1. Add in the fact that the AI ack fire algorithm has a certain set method of 'aiming' at your plane, and it's really no wonder why gun damages in a certain section happen repeatedly. The chances are, when you are moving towards ack, the ack always 'aims' for a certain spot.

Offline Kev367th

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Damage bug
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2005, 11:38:43 PM »
OK just had a weird one -
Was trying to put a cap over friendly CV.
Spotted a P38 inbound much higher than me.
Turned to intercept and pulled up underneath him.
At d1000 I squirted off a few rounds to try and throw him off.
Seen hit sprites along lower central cockpit and he blew up.
Was told by pilot he got pilot wound then exploded.

So a 20mm round going vertically 1000yrds will pass through the lower fuselage, through the armoured seat, presumably through the complete pilots body and kill him with a head shot.

DON"T THINK SO.

There just isn't something right with the damage model.

Further proof -
How many rounds you bounced off an M3 at less than 800yrds with a Panzer or Tiger?
How ridiculously easy is it to set a buff on fire now? It used to be aim for the wingtip, now all you need is a few rounds in the wingroot.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2005, 11:43:26 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline MENDEZ

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Damage bug
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2005, 08:51:29 AM »
I agree with the typhoon oil thing, never go for ho shots but when i get hit from direct 6 or trying a defensive oil is 90% of the damage i get if i survive something wierd about that.
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Offline LePaul

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Damage bug
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2005, 05:25:20 PM »
I'll have to film a few of my P-38 flights.  I couldnt figure out why that was almost always the first thing that happened to me...pilot wound.  Im not *saying* that it is...but I'll do a few nights of only P-38 time and see what my damage trend is.

Offline LePaul

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Damage bug
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2005, 10:21:25 AM »
I flew several sorties in the '38 last night.  Didnt have any pilot wounds.  Quite a variety of things...right engine and cannon (from trying to avoid several HOs) was pretty much what I saw the most of.

Offline Kev367th

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Damage bug
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2005, 10:00:32 AM »
On the flip side -
Was flying some buffs last night, had a Tiffy coming up on my low six.
At d1.5k just to try and warn him off, I squirted off a few rounds, seen hit sprites around the tail/rear fusealge area.
But believe it or not he got an oil leak!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2005, 10:02:50 AM by Kev367th »
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Offline Clifra Jones

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Damage bug
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2005, 12:21:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
On the flip side -
Was flying some buffs last night, had a Tiffy coming up on my low six.
At d1.5k just to try and warn him off, I squirted off a few rounds, seen hit sprites around the tail/rear fusealge area.
But believe it or not he got an oil leak!!!!!!!!


Just because you saw hit sprites at the tail does not mean that a hit near the engine did not happen. Even 50 cal ballistics from that range can be unpredictable. A stray round could have nailed a front section hit.

It's been stated on the BBS that not all hits produce a hit sprite.

Offline Krusty

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Damage bug
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2005, 01:30:01 PM »
Not all hits produce a sprite. CORRECT.

However, the hits that do NOT cause sprites are generally in the same area as the OTHER hits.

So how can I get hit in the outboard flaps and aileron (in my p38g by a c202) from straight back 6 position, hit on the OUTBOARD wing, and the only damage I get is a pilot wound?

Read the thread about the bostons blowing up from any angle and from any shot. They're doing it too. I think some planes have the old hit bubble for the pilot (back in AH1 the bubble was 10x larger), so that even if you hit them on the outter wing it's a pilot kill (as in the boston III)

Offline viper215

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Re: Damage bug
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2005, 10:40:25 PM »
yea kev i have lots of problems with those 3 planes some one was on my 6 when i was in a typh and he pinged me and oil was hit.


and pilot being shot from under you in a p38 ticks me off to:confused:
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Offline mussie

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Damage bug
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2005, 12:45:36 AM »
To some extent (and this is only from my observations), with certain planes I would have to agree that there is common damage.  

When I fly the F4's or maybe its the F6 I get a gun damaged almost every time I take my first hit.

With the Mossie it feels like I get a disproportionate number of pilot wounds.

And I think the right waist gunner in my 24's is smoking cause I get a hell of a lot of engine fires on that side.

That being said, I have not done any tests ect, so I don't think its fair to make a judgement on the damage model.

Perhaps I am just imaging it, but it is real enough for me to think twice about flying the Mossie. (Pity I like the Mossie).