Scapegoat or mastermind in torturing prisoners?

[Staga]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/16/graner.court.martial/

Graner sentenced to 10 years
He admitted to 'criminal' acts but said he was following orders


FORT HOOD, Texas (CNN) -- Army Reserve Spc. Charles Graner Jr., sentenced to 10 years in a military prison for his role in abusing detainees at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad, says he has no apologies for his actions in Iraq.

Graner, 36, will serve his prison term as a private, with no salary, and will be dishonorably discharged after he is released.

Led from the courtroom in handcuffs and leg chains, Graner twice answered "No, ma'am" when asked whether he had regrets or apologies.

His mother, Irma, said her son took the rap for high-ranking officers, whom she said were "all guilty."

She criticized them for failing to testify on his behalf.

"He got 10 years in prison for something he was told to do," she said. "He committed a crime for obeying orders, and he would have committed a crime if he didn't obey orders."

Asked about his parents' claim that he was a scapegoat, Graner said, "I was a soldier, and if I did wrong, here I am."

Graner's attorney, Guy Womack, told reporters that he thought there are "some appealable issues" after the court-martial.

When the sentence was read, Graner stood stiffly, but his brows were a bit furrowed.

After jurors left the room, Graner turned to his attorney and said, "That's what makes the world go around," and laughed slightly.

He told reporters in the courtroom that he knew people thought he had acted "goofy" outside of the proceedings, smiling all the time, "talking about the sky being blue all the time" -- but he explained, "I'm home. I didn't think I would make it home, like some others did not."

Graner, a former prison guard in Pennsylvania, told CNN on Saturday that he had expected to get the maximum penalty of 15 years.

Friday, the same jury found Graner guilty of 10 charges, including aggravated assault, maltreatment and conspiracy.

Prosecutors accused Graner of being a ringleader in the physical abuse and sexual humiliation of prisoners that came to light when photos of apparent abuses were broadcast in the media in April 2004.

A Syrian prisoner whom Graner was convicted of battering testified that he was beaten while recovering from a bullet wound, and called Graner the top torturer in the prison.

Earlier Saturday during the penalty phase of his court-martial, Graner said he did not relish doling out what he described as "irregular treatment."

"I didn't enjoy it," Graner testified. "A lot of it was wrong. A lot of it was criminal."

Graner said he was obeying his superiors.

"We were called to violate the Geneva Convention," Graner said. "We were asked to do certain things I wasn't trained to do."

Graner's testimony was unsworn, meaning he could not be cross-examined.

His orders came from civilian contractors as well as military intelligence, Graner said during two-and-a-half hours on the witness stand.

"A lot of the weird stuff came from civilian contractors," he said, referring specifically to the photographs. Also, he said, "crazy stuff" was ordered by military intelligence soldiers.

When Womack asked why he was smiling in some photographs, Graner said, "There were a lot of things we did that were screwed up. If you didn't look at it as funny, you couldn't deal with it."

Graner told jurors he respected and understood their decision to convict him.

As he was leaving the courthouse for lunch, he was asked how he thought he would be treated in a military prison. "Professionally," he responded.

Friday night, Graner's parents had asked for mercy from the military jury.

"He wanted to be [a military policeman]. God, I don't know why," said his father, Charles Graner Sr.

"I bear no malice for you. When he came home, we were going to go fishing. He was going tell me about the war," Graner said. "Now, that fishing is going to be postponed. For how long, it's going to be up to you.

"I'd get down on my knees and beg to you, but my son wouldn't let me do it."

Irma Graner said her son was "kind, gentle, will do anything for anybody. He's not the one that he's being made out to be."

In dramatic closing arguments before the jury, prosecutors showed video and photographs of alleged abuses by Graner.

"What we have here is plain abuse, no doubt about it. There is no justification," prosecuting attorney Capt. Chris Graveline said.

But Graner's defense attorneys argued the images in the photographs were not as horrible as the prosecution made them out to be.

Graner, from Uniontown, Pennsylvania, was the first to face trial of the seven military guards charged in connection with the abuses at Abu Ghraib.

Three of those guards -- all from the 372nd Military Police Company -- have pleaded guilty without going to trial: Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick II, 37, of Buckingham, Virginia; Spc. Jeremy Sivits, 24, of Fort Ashby, West Virginia; and Spc. Megan Ambuhl, 29, of Centreville, Virginia.

Graner reportedly had a relationship and fathered a baby with England, who is awaiting charges from the case.

Ambuhl testified earlier in the week that she also had a brief sexual relationship with him.

CNN's Susan Candiotti and Jim Polk contributed to this report.

[Drunky]

Yes, something appears to be 'jacked up'.

[LePaul]

Oh hush, I shot Stagtard down first!

[Airhead]

Staga so what's your take on this? Did he deserve a harsher sentance?

[Gunslinger]

wow, ten years.  That's a long time if you ask me.  Civilians do alot worse crimes and do far less.....BUT we in the military are supposed to be held at a higher standard so I understand that.

What I dont understand is this guy was a SPC????? E-4???????

WTF is a ringleader about an E-4?  Are they even an NCO in the army?  To me this seems irregular at best because of his low rang (wich is low, it's handed out automatically now a days so the responsibility levels are much lower)

A Cpl in the Marines is an E-4, while an NCO he is a "leader" but wouldn't be in charge of more than a few people usually.

Just my thaughts.

Moral courage comes to play here.  That's recognizing an Illegal order and not following and paying the consequences if you are wrong.  That's true leadership.

[Tumor]

All of us military types know we are not obligated to carry out unlawful orders, and we are all aware of LOAC and such.  If you are in the military and unable to figure out mistreatment of POW's is unlawful, well, then maybe prison time will offer ample time to learn about it.

[john9001]

a specialist rank in the army is a pay grade, they have no command function. NCO's have command rank.

[FUNKED1]

Quite excessive length of sentence.  But this is more about keeping up appearances than actual justice.

[Sandman]

An E-4 is not responsible. No way. He's a scapegoat. The Army is going to make bright shiny examples out of Graner and England while the officers walk with little else but the possibility of an adverse FITREP.

[sling322]

Originally posted by Airhead
Staga so what's your take on this? Did he deserve a harsher sentance?

Staga doesnt have a "take" on this.  He is just doing his part as ringleader of the Amerihaters to bring to light every article that may reflect badly upon US troops and the US in general.  You should know that about him by now Airhead.

[Airhead]

Originally posted by sling322
Staga doesnt have a "take" on this.  He is just doing his part as ringleader of the Amerihaters to bring to light every article that may reflect badly upon US troops and the US in general.  You should know that about him by now Airhead.

I was just curious if the porrage was too hot or too cold this time....it's never just right for our little Goldilocks.  

[Charon]

As pointed out above, he chose to follow an illegal order - clearly illegal. Clearly illegal even if your knowledge of the UCMJ and various international conventions comes solely from Hollywood. Illegal if you have any common sense.

Is he a scapegoat -- wouldn't that be unheard of in the military I have little doubt he and England were actually given those illegal orders they chose to follow.


Charon

[Drunky]

I'm willing to bet my eye 'teeth' that something is 'jacked up'.

But that is just me.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by GScholz
Like I've said earlier: They should have been shot, along with their immediate superior officers. How much did they hurt your efforts to calm things down in Iraq? How many American and Iraqi soldiers did these people indirectly kill?

tell ya what, you be the first to line up and shoot em, k????

[Airhead]

Originally posted by GScholz
Like I've said earlier: They should have been shot, along with their immediate superior officers. How much did they hurt your efforts to calm things down in Iraq? How many American and Iraqi soldiers did these people indirectly kill?

Ahhhh...The porage is too cold. Thanks for the clarification, GSholz.

BTW, did you have to promise Skuzzy you'd play nice if he let you back in the sandbox? Personally I'm glad you can post again, and I'll keep our exchanges on a more civil level than they've been in the past.

Welcome back.