A Freakin .22 ..................

[Sandman_SBM]

 

Originally posted by Maverick:
Sandman,

There is a difference between beating and spanking (corporal punishment). The way I read your post (I think) you equate them the same. If that is not true then please let me know.

Nope... you got it correctly. I see the difference in spanking and beating purely as a matter of scale. Corporal punishment was one of the tools my parents used. It's not one of mine. So far, I'm pleased with the results. Rather than try and walk the line of even-handedness between spanking and outright beating, I just don't.

Hey... your mileage may vary. Parenting methods differ every bit as much as the children differ. What bothers me is the notion that a good ass-whoopin' will cure society's ills (whatever those are) and the thought that if one doesn't use corporal punishment, they are doing something wrong.

IMHO, there are plenty of wrong ways to raise children. We spend most of our parenting lives trying to get a handle on the "right" way or combination of "right" ways. Unfortunately, it's a moving target. If you think you have the solution for all parents, you're fooling yourself. (Note: I don't mean this statement as you: Maverick. You meaning not me.)

[Sandman_SBM]

 

Originally posted by Mighty1:
If people are so concerned about kids in school they should be willing to fork out more money to put in the security measures required AND force the Administration to enforce the rules.

I've got an even cheaper solution. If the kid doesn't stay within the rules, he's gone. Still a lot of holes in this country that need to be dug, highways to repair, etc. If they aren't interested in learning, give them a shovel.

[SwampRat]

...maybe this whole thing is really an issue of population.  I dunno, seem's like with the steady increase in population you have a steady increase in the chance for warped sense's of reality.
SwampRat

[pzvg]

You know the one thing that pisses me the hell off? You guys saying, "If he didn't have a gun, he would not be able to kill so many." Look, One child is too many, got it? this isn't a whoopeeed statistics game, To two families out there, That boy killed exactly ONE child, theirs.

If the only way you can solve the problem is to become something worse than the problem, is that problem really that bad?

My children are important to me, I will smack them if they step outta line, They know that, consequently I do not engage in much smacking, Oh yes I'm a brute, and I'm evil, And what I do will effect them the rest of their lives.
That's the friggin idea, folks, that's the idea.
People tell me when one of my kids has spent the night over with their kids how well mannered and considerate my child is.
They were given a proper upbringing, They know how to punch a sorryass in the mouth too, but they don't have a need to "vent" or "express themselves"

You want to see brutal? FRY that little toejam,
and televise it, make it mandatory viewing in high schools, See how many of them wish to "express themselves" after watching someone's eyes pop from their head.

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[Sandman_SBM]

As long as there are guns, there will be people who use guns irresponsibly and there will be casualties. There is no changing this fact, not new laws, not stiffer punsishment, nothing.

Take it up with Chuck Heston.

[TheWobble]

 

As long as there are guns, there will be people who use guns irresponsibly and there will be casualties. There is no changing this fact, not new laws, not stiffer punsishment, nothing.

Wow yer typical blame the guns garbage again.  Try this one:

As long as there are people who behave irrsponsabily there will be casualities.

Hmm that sounds much better doesent it..and hey IT ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE.

THATS what there is no getting around.  Blaming the guns and ignoring the PROBLEM is whats the matter, not the guns.  No matter if there are guns are not people will try to other people, guns or not PEOPLE are the problem, NOT guns.

What yer saying is like saying cars are the cause of drunk driving incidents.

[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 03-09-2001).]

[the_hegemon]

I found this article as an interesting perspective on this issue...
 http://www.blackvoices.com/news/my_turn/010307schoolshootings.html


---------------
darkstar
=Twin Engine Devils=

[Sandman_SBM]

TheWobble... you missed the point but I'll play along...

As long as we have cars, people will use them irresponsibly. There will be casualties.

Yep... that works too.

The point is... you can't change the behavior. There is nothing that will reduce the danger of gun violence to zero except eliminating guns. That said... the only thing left is to simply accept it as the price to be paid for this particular freedom and move along. Freedom doesn't come without a cost.

[TheWobble]

 

The point is... you can't change the behavior. There is nothing that will reduce the danger of gun violence to zero except eliminating guns. That said... the only thing left is to simply accept it as the price to be paid for this particular freedom and move along. Freedom doesn't come without a cost.

Well so what you are saying is that there is no point in trying to change the criminal, insted just take away whatever they use from EVERYBODY.  In other words punish everyone for what the bad minority do?

So basically Ignore the problem (the people who want to do these bad things) and PUNISH EVERYBODY for whatever they do.  yea freedom has a price..but to punish everyone for the acts of a few is fundamentally wrong.

Bad things happen to good people, its sad but its always been around, and always will be, but trying to childproof the nation just because some people behave badly is far from anything resembling a solution.

lets see here..
NO guns
NO cars
NO knives
NO baseball bats
NO fists
NO feet
...I could go on

 

is nothing that will reduce the danger of gun violence to zero except eliminating guns

thats the worst thing possable. why?
well lets see Mr. Goodguy,  a nice LEGAL gun owner who has a regesterd pistol gives up his guns..he wouldent have ever done anythign wrong but it got taken away anyway, Mr Criminal who has a gun also but guess what its not regestered.. uh-ho! gee I wonder if he will turn in his gun...hmm think now..but guess what! he knows that Mr. Goodguy has give up his guns so Mr Criminal doesent have to worry about breaking into Mr Goodguy's house and maby steal some stuff..hell so what if someones at home he knows they wont have a gun, they are law abiding citizens..they gave em up so that they would be safe right??

so basically
if you make guns illegal, the people who deserve the right to own them and have done nothing wrong will lose them, and the Crininals will not.

A ban on guns is every criminals dream, it would mean protection for them, and they wouldent have to worry about that pesky rape victim pulling a gun on the..at least then they can take their time.

[Sandman_SBM]

Wow... you sure put a lot of words in my mouth.

 

Well so what you are saying is that there is no point in trying to change the criminal, insted just take away whatever they use from EVERYBODY. In other words punish everyone for what the bad minority do?

I believe that I have yet to say "get rid of guns". I've said that without guns there would be no gun violence. I've also stated that irresponsible gun users will be a hazard as long as guns are available in this country. How can these two statements be false?

 

so basically if you make guns illegal, the people who deserve the right to own them and have done nothing wrong will lose them, and the Crininals will not...

More alarmist NRA propaganda. Pffft. Extrapolated data is seldom correct.

 

..but to punish everyone for the acts of a few is fundamentally wrong.

Ah... you just say things like this to get me spun up on the drug war. I'm not bitin'.

 

[Tac]

Oh yeah, I see the solution now.

If a crime is commited by a child (or minor or dependant) using a weapon registered/owned by the parent/legal guardians then its the parents/legal guardians that should take on the FULL brunt of the law.

So yes, Mr. Goodguy who bought a gun and then had his kid take it to school just to show "his cool gun" and accidentally goes off...killing the kid opening his locker down the hallway. Now Mr. Goodguy SHOULD by all rights be FULLY prosecuted for 2nd degree murder. It was HIS gun and HIS responsability for not "using it properly". Fire up ol' sparky, mr. goodguy is about to get BBQ'D.

But hey, the argument is that mr. goodguy bought it to defend his house and loved ones...right?. Having a firearm at home is in the long run far more dangerous to the owner (especially if you have kids) than to the criminal that broke into your home.

Also, isnt there a law requiring that guns kept at home be UNLOADED and have their ammo stored... was it 18ft away from the unloaded gun? Dont remember the exact figure. Unless you live in a very expensive, big home, I dont see how you are going to notice the guy that broke in, scramble to get your gun, load it and then go after the crook. Oh wait, add the fact that this might be in the middle of the night... turning on your light would be quite dumb as it would give you away and blind you for a while... then loading it in the dark... and then hope all those RAMBO and CLINT EASTWOOD movies you saw will help you to shoot the guy that thanks to the construction of the average home in the US is made of cardboard and other non-bullet stopping material  AND that the fact that the MAIN BEDROOM is in most cases located on the other side of the house from the other bedrooms where your kids sleep WITHOUT starting a gunfight that might send bullets whizzing all around your house... including through the cardboard walls and into your child's head.

This scenario plays itself out in almost every home with a gun. If you really want your family and house safe, invest in home security. And im not talking about those laughable house alarms. Buy bars for your windows, install steel mesh in your roof, buy VERY good locks, door locks and secure garage openers (you'd be amazed how EASY it is to get the frequency to open someone's garage), METAL doors.

So what will it be? The expensive yet safe home with all these security investments or a cheap gun which you can show off to your beer buddies and inflate your ego with on the gun range?

[TheWobble]

   

Buy bars for your windows, install steel mesh in your roof, buy VERY good locks, door locks and secure garage openers (you'd be amazed how EASY it is to get the frequency to open someone's garage), METAL doors.

Yea why buy a gun to protect yourself, when you can just put your family in a cage?


   

So yes, Mr. Goodguy who bought a gun and then had his kid take it to school just to show "his cool gun" and accidentally goes off...killing the kid opening his locker down the hallway.

Yea, im sure a dad would buy a gun and then give it to his son and say "here boy take it to school and show em what daddy bought"
Could you conjure up a more UN-REALISTIC scenario..perhaps something with a UFO (not the NIK) perhaps?

here is some statistics that people often overlook when they want to say having a gun in the home is "unsafe"

A: More children are injured buy toys every year than guns.
B: 135 times more children are killed in car accidents than by guns every year on average.
C: more people are severly injured (requiring hospitialization)by kitchen utinsils every year then buy guns in their house.
D: It is more dangerous to have a bicycle than a gun. (assuming yer not a total idiot but then the bike would be even more dangerous)

E: Dogs kill more childern every year on average than are killed due to the child finding a gun in the home and shooting himself/others.

Well lets see here so based on yer idea that having a gun is dangerous..if you want to be "safe" you should not have.
toys
a car
knives spoons or forks
no bike.
no dog

look like a "safe" life would not be a life worth living IMO.

   

Having a firearm at home is in the long run far more dangerous to the owner (especially if you have kids) than to the criminal that broke into your home.

Only to a family of undereducated, STUPID MORONS, anything is dangersous if you are RETARDED..but saying that a having a criminal break into yer house is SAFER than having a gun in yer house is well...quite possably the stupidest thing ive ever heard.


Im sure if you were awaken in the middle of the night to a stranger breaking yer window and trying to climb in the first thing through yer mind would be "thank god i dont have a gun, those things are dangerous"  and considering the circumstances..it just my be yer last.



[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 03-10-2001).]

[StSanta]

Only 135 more dead due to car accidents?

Thought it'd be more.

Either you got decent stats for child deaths on the freeways, or bad ones with guns.

Other than that, not gonna get involved in this  

------------------
Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"


"Live to pull, pull to live"

[TheWobble]

Only 135 more dead due to car accidents

135 TIMES the amount, not 135 more.

[pzvg]

Tac, Memorial park cemetary, Gainesville, Ga.
3rd row from entrance, 4th stone name Thomas
Go tell him how the average home defense scenario is supposed to work, I think he'd be quite upset that I didn't play by the rules.

If they ban guns, There will still be guns,
Or has banning anything worked?

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"