Hackl's FW-190 A6

[JAWS2003]

I think he was coming from 109:



http://hem.passagen.se/galland/Hackl.html?k

[Kweassa]

It'd probably come down to the JG11 histories.

 A quick research in the Orders of Battle for the III./JG11 shows;

1. Anton Hackl was the Group Commander(GruppenKommandeure) of the III./JG11 between October of '43 to May of '44

2. The III./JG11 began its transition to Fw190As in January of '44

3. The serial production of Fw190A-5 began in November of '42. The serial production of the A-6 began in June of '43 and ended in November that year, with 569 planes produced.

4. The Fw190A-7s, which indicate the development of the latter 190s equipped with MG131 and 4x MG151s, was just making it to the frontlines when its production ended after only two months(production ended in Jan. '44) with only 80 frames produced. All of the rest of the 190As produced in '44 were Fw190A-8s. The A-9s began production from August of '44.

5. Thus, in January of 1944, when Hackl was in command of the III./JG11, and its transition to Fw190As happened, it seems unlikely Hackl would have received Fw190A-5s for any reason.

6.  At Jan. '44 even the A-7s were stopped in production, and the A-8s were coming out. The bulk of existing airframes would have been A-6s. A-5s were deemed outdated and made its way to SchlachtGeschwaders(ground attack units).



 Alas, it seems Hackl wouldn't have ever been in A-5s.

 Thus, the depiction of his A-6 airframe would demand a choice. When I did Hackl's A-6 with the older 190 models, it was upon a request from Crumpp, which I wasn't completely comfortable about. Since no one else was much interested in doing 190 skins except a few people, I figured I'd probably be the only one doing an A-6, and one A-6 scheme among A-5s wouldn't hurt much.

 But since after the new 190 3D models, the interest in skinning 190s have grown a lot. And frankly, there are much more A-6 schemes to be depicted than there are A-5s. References and resources regarding the A-6 skin is much more common than those of A-5s.

 So...

 If for any reason an A-6 skin is introduced under these conditions, it might become a bad precedent. I for one, would not be too glad to see A-5 skins filled up with A-6 schemes.

 ...


 Damn, I guess I won't do it.

[Nefarious]

Didnt the A-6 have its overall length increased by Six Inches?

Or was that the -5 over the -4?

[Krusty]

That was the -5 and later models.


Kweassa, out of curiousity, what numbers did you find for total A5 production?

[Kweassa]

Couldn't find those numbers. Probably Crumpp or others can confirm it.

 It seems I was wrong about the A-6. The A-8 was the most produced with over 1000 frames, and then the A-4 was produced in almost 900 frames. The A-6 would probably the third most with over 500.. and I'm not sure if the A-5 was produced more than that.

[Nefarious]

Originally posted by Krusty
That was the -5 and later models.

 

thanks, wasnt sure.

[Krusty]

That can't be right.. just checked a couple of books and they say total wartime production for 190s was just over 20,000. If a8 was most produced with 1000, that's a tad low for an estimate


Also read that the long-span lightly armored Ta152H never served in combat. Only 10 were built!

Why don't we have the super-firepowered 152C? I'd hit it!

[maik]

Where did you read That Krusty?

Production Numbers of the TA where higher, can't remember how many gotta recheck .

Anyway the T152 H's definitly saw Combat in very low number I admit.

At least 12 were transfered to JG 301 during the latest Days.

Combat reports say that they even sored kills in this plane.

OTH the C never saw combat.

regards

[Kweassa]

That can't be right.. just checked a couple of books and they say total wartime production for 190s was just over 20,000. If a8 was most produced with 1000, that's a tad low for an estimate

 The figures differ a lot upon researchers probably.

 Here's a simular discussion I found about the total production number of 190s;

No, as I recall there are some 17000 A/F/G series (ie: aircooled engine) airframes laid down. That number is probably a little overstated, because in some instances new werknumbers were given to a plane composed of the parts of several existing planes, or when a plane's format/equipment was substantially changed. Also the numbering system was not consistant through the war. It's all rather confusing as I'm sure you know.

There is a huge discrepancy. Established numbers seem to be well short of the 17000 figure, but I suspect the missing planes are more evenly distributed between the A-4 through A-9 series, as well as amoung the various F and G variants than the 6700 A-8's figure would imply, but perhaps... ???

Adding up the numbers of each variant at the JBaugher 198A page, I come up with about 5500, but this includes no figures for A-3, A-5, A-0, F-8, or F-9 versions. Even he claims that there were about 17000 radial engine versions:

Quote:--------------------------------------
Example of this practice is seen in a Fw 190F-8/R-1 plane stored in the National Air and Space Museum (NASM) in Washington, USA. When, after storage in the Silver Hill facility, the process of restoration started, the old identification plate on the fuselage with serial number (Werk Nummer) W.Nr. 640069 was found. This is evidence that the airframe was taken from an A-7 plane. After rebuilding during the war, this particular plane was modified to Fw 190F-8 standard, got a new serial number (W.Nr. 931884) and was again sent to a service unit. The number of Fw 190 fighters produced with radial engines is probably 17000 planes minimum. Some authors quote higher numbers, but because each source is different, these numbers are not credible. Of course, the development of the Fw 190 plane did not end with the A, F and G versions, but continued with water-cooled in-line engines.
(http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/fw190.html)
Quote:--------------------------------------

I'd also point out that just because an airframe was completed to the point of recieving a Werknumber does not mean it was ever delivered for service. I suspect the actual number in service was well under 17000, but well over 5500.

 Reference ->

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/about855-0-asc-80.html

[Krusty]

Re: 152H; only 10 built: From a Bill Gunston book. short reference (no in-depth), and he's not always 100%. It's possible he's wrong but I had to put it out there to see responses (a semi-troll, for information, though)

Can you elaborate on the C not seeing any combat? From what I understandit was the more produced variant of the Ta152.