Jug compared to 190A8 question

[AKFokerFoder+]

I haven't been able to play AH for almost 3 months.  (work)

And now that it is summer, well Alaska is all about fishing

Earlier this year, I had tried to change from the 190A8 to something better, but nothing seems to fit my style of flying like the A8.

I came back in and tried the 190A8, but the frontal views are a great dissapointment.  I can't shoot what I can't see.

I have been taking up the Jug a bit, it seems to have some A8-like attributes:

Good fuel capacity

Very Good firepower (not as good as A8 but very impressive)

Excelent views, no comparision with the new no-frontal view of the A8

The Jug is an excellent diver, and seems to handle adequately at speed.  

Both seem to have excellent retention of e, and fairly close on deck speeds.

It doesn't roll like a 190, which is a critical component of the A8's mindblowing high speed manueverablity.  The ability to almost instantly change lift vectors has saved my backside more times than I can count.

It does have high speed flaps that I am sure could be put to good use.

How tough is the Jug?  the A8 is tougher than a bus station steak.

I flew about 5 or 6 sorties so far this weekend. A couple of not so good ones in the A8, 1 in the F6F, and the rest in the Jug.  If the F6F had rear views, I would fly it a lot.  But the Jug brought home the bacon.  I got at least 1 scalp per sortie, and had a 4 kill no vulch sortie.  

All in all, it seems to be a plane that can be flown very much like a 190A8.

But the Jug is ugly as a picked-chicken.

When you've been dating a fast, beautiful chick with long legs, sleek lines, and a razor toten' mean attitude, And now you find your self out on the town with an ugly chick with long legs.

Well, I guess as long as she gets me kills, and gets me home,...

Any comments on flying the Jug?

[Flyboy]

first of all.. one more dis on the jugs appearance and i will mark you as a target and hunt you down for a month, the jug is one of the prettiest planes ever made!

now for your questions, here is my take of the P47 vrs the 190

maneuverability: the jug turns much batter then the 190a8, although it rolls slower, it is more stable and the flaps help alot in pulling tighter circles.

speed and acceleration: the jug is faster in level flight, but the 190 will accelerate much batter, when diving the jug have a clear advantage.

firepower and armour: both planes are tough, very tough. firepower is more of a personal taste, the 190 packs more punch but its harder to land hits, the p47 allso packs an impressive punch and its much easier to land hits at greater ranges like 400-600 yards.
so it depends on your taste.

climb: depends on ammo load, the moddel of the P47 and fuel, but usually the 190 has the edge.

a nice bonus for the 190 is the long period you can use WEP. the jug heats up pretty fast, and its vital when things  get complicated.


all in all, very similar planes and IMHO one of the best matchups in the game.

i would love to run a few 1vrs1 jug vrs 190. if you want, its always a good fight.

[Krusty]

To date, the only plane that I've successfully performed scissors in (success meaning I got a con that was 400 to 1.xK, and was able to get distance and re-engage as I wanted) has been the 190. It's that roll rate. In any other plane you can perform scissors. But you just go back and forth. You don't present the opportunity to gain a LOT of distance and save yer own butt. When the con is close and you have somewhat decent speed (maybe 175 but 200+ better) roll sideways and pull (gently now, it's a 190). Look over your rear shoulder. Once the plane starts settling into the turn immediately roll 190 and, carefully, pull a smidgen harder in the opposite direction. The tail may try a snapshot but usually it flounders for a second rolling hard, trying to prevent an overshoot, and pulling hard to turn with you, then do once it almost settles in do the same again but hit full wep and once you have cut across its nose level out and get speed at full wep.

Like an overshoot works best when the con is close (600 has worked for me). Hopefully it leaves the enemy (usually a spit5) too slow from all the pulling and slowing down, and you can outaccelerate it.

One other thing about the A8. Like many planes it out runs the SpitV!

[AKFokerFoder+]

Originally posted by Flyboy
first of all.. one more dis on the jugs appearance and i will mark you as a target and hunt you down for a month, the jug is one of the prettiest planes ever made!

Well, I guess I'll just keep my opinions about aethetics to myself

I surely would fly one on one in the training arena.  I would point out that I really suck one on one, but I'm not a bunny newbie either.

I just want a plane that has the following characteristics.  Darn near like a spec sheet for the A8, except for the new views.


Lotsa fuel, I want to get up on perch and stay there, dive down, and get back up there.

I want to hit hard, fast, and either kill or disengage in less than 20 seconds.

I want lots of punch in my guns package.

I want excellent views, you can't have SA if you have significant blind spots.

I want good  energy retention, and on the deck speed, for attacking and egress.

I want good handling in the dive and at speed, I don't want it to compress at medium speeds.

I want it to have enough agility to get keep me alive for at least 2 minutes, should I find myself with a bogey on my six.  Within 2 minutes, you are either dead, or someone else has bagged the bogey on your six.

If I get myself in a situation where I am over 2 minutes from help, I deserve to die

[Virage]

Fly the A8 and stop being a wuss.

[AKFokerFoder+]

Originally posted by Virage
Fly the A8 and stop being a wuss.

I had a one on one with a LA7 tonight, probably not the best LA7 driver by a long shot, he tried to run me down on my egress. I then shook him off my six, shot him up a bit, and disengaged.  My mistake, I should have stayed with him, for he came back at me, and eventually set my engine on fire.  I burned to death, I think.

I have to remember that in one on ones' agression is your only hope.

Still, the A8 has charm, but I will stick with the Jug for a bit.  I may even get to like it's looks.  Kinda like dating a cross-eyed girl, if she has long legs and gives you a good ride, like who notices?

I have noticed that the Jugs' guns package seems frightfully deadly.  And your lead for a firing solution is substancially less than with the A8.

As for being a Wuss, well thats what we were called in my Grandpa's day.  Nowadays we wusses' are called "Sensitive Males"    

[Kweassa]

1 vs 1, I'd bet on the Jug everytime.

 Multi vs multi, it'd be pretty close, but I'd bet on the 190A-8.

[Flyboy]

i dont agree with you Kweassa. if the 190 start playing in the vertical it can end pretty quick.

[bozon]

But the Jug is ugly as a picked-chicken.
When you've been dating a fast, beautiful chick with long legs, sleek lines, and a razor toten' mean attitude, And now you find your self out on the town with an ugly chick with long legs.

hew????!
The 190 is like a sickly thin heroin addicted girl, while the Jug is a healthy babe with nice... well... jugs

Good fuel capacity

Carefull with that. It isn't so simple with the jug. It eats through this extremely large fuel load like crazy when at full throttle. So you actually just get average range and a VERY fuel heavy plane. To get something out of this fuel load in terms of range and endurance you have to manage your RPM/MAN settings.

Remember that with light fuel load it has better wingloading than the 190A8 and will out turn it easily. Too bad this phase of the flight lasts so little. On the other hand, try to fly it with 100% and you won't turn with a B17.

Bozon

[Virage]

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Nowadays we wusses' are called "Sensitive Males"    

Ok, Ok.. But no hugging.

[AKFokerFoder+]

Originally posted by bozon
hew????!
The 190 is like a sickly thin heroin addicted girl, while the Jug is a healthy babe with nice... well... jugs

 
Carefull with that. It isn't so simple with the jug. It eats through this extremely large fuel load like crazy when at full throttle. So you actually just get average range and a VERY fuel heavy plane. To get something out of this fuel load in terms of range and endurance you have to manage your RPM/MAN settings.

Remember that with light fuel load it has better wingloading than the 190A8 and will out turn it easily. Too bad this phase of the flight lasts so little. On the other hand, try to fly it with 100% and you won't turn with a B17.

Bozon

As for your first comment, I would like point out that "Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder"  

And thank you for your comments on fuel management.

I usually take off with 75% and a drop tank.  I fight with the drop tank until it is empty, and I often leave it on to increase drag so as to control speed in a dive.  I drop the tank when I feel I need to decrease my drag for either fighting, climbing or running like a scalded dawg.

It would seem that the Jug has a bit more capacity for staying and slugging it out than the 190.  Not much more, but any edge is an edge.

[AKFokerFoder+]

Just as a thought,  I suppose leaving a drop tank on during a high speed dive may be gaming the game?

I would imagine that there is an upper speed limit on drop tanks, that if exceeded, they would rip off.  I am not sure they would do much damage to the plane, as they are designed to drop off, but having them rip off would certainly seem to be less than optimal.  I would imagine that they were designed to rip off without doing much damage to the aircraft.  I would certainly beleive that in the heat of battle, more than one pilot has unknowingly dived with the drop tanks on and had them rip off.

Pure ignorance in the above statements, any comments?

[Krusty]

Re: P47 vs 190... 190 always is a better ride. The only advantage that the Jug has is the super flaps that allow it to float as gentle as a butterfly at 70mph with nose up (lmao). But most USAAF planes have those flaps.


Also consider the jug is a HUGE bellybutton target. 190 is harder to hit. But the 190 has a fragile fuselage. Take a solid hit and WHAM no tail left.

[Stegahorse]

After readig this thread, I'm disheartened to see that the Thunderbolt is still not given the highest roll rate of the European  Theater planes. Those who flew it said that the roll rate of the Jug gave a manuever advantage over the FW and Bf.
It was never a low alt. dogfighter, but ..........oh well.

[DoctorYO]

The d11 will eat the 190a8's lunch, mostly due to the fact the d11 has great initial turn.. (it just feels tight.. all around.. very little floundering..)

the fatter slower p47's are even steven in my book vs the a8 for the reasons most touched on above..(both have str's and weakness just a matter who exploits who first..)

be careful with the d11 though..  excellent dogfighter above 8k..  (at 8k can outdive about anything.. for shorterm..)

Also on a scissors the p47 works just as well as a a8 becuase your displacing more air when your turn.. (even with the slower roll..) throw in a barrel roll and its overshoot city..


DoctorYo