Author Topic: Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet (Read 1145 times)

Staga · « **Reply #15 on:** May 13, 2005, 01:12:08 AM »

Too bad there's not as good footage as in the case where F-16 pilot ejected himself in airshow.

Anyways best crash was that B-52 in USA; it was even better than "Annual Russian Ejection Seat Roundup".
Thought nobody didn't jump then but maybe few folks in ground when the plane crashed to ground.

mora · « **Reply #16 on:** May 13, 2005, 05:58:16 AM »

Couple of ejection vids I had on my HD:

QF-4
F-14

straffo · « **Reply #17 on:** May 13, 2005, 06:15:10 AM »

I've trouble determining wich of Masherbrum and Staga's post I find the more bad taste...

Masherbrum · « **Reply #18 on:** May 13, 2005, 09:19:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by straffo
I've trouble determining wich of Masherbrum and Staga's post I find the more bad taste...

Pick me! Ooh, Ohh, Pick me!

Karaya

Staga · « **Reply #19 on:** May 13, 2005, 10:22:46 AM »

straffo · « **Reply #20 on:** May 13, 2005, 10:35:17 AM »

héhé

lada · « **Reply #21 on:** May 13, 2005, 11:12:31 AM »

Is it just me or there are both engines on fire lately ?

SunTracker · « **Reply #22 on:** May 13, 2005, 02:52:05 PM »

After some of the weak airshows that the U.S. airforce has put on lately, I applaud any pilot who really takes his plane to the limit, whether they are Russian or American.

Planes are expendable, pilot experience isnt.

eagl · « **Reply #23 on:** May 13, 2005, 03:26:48 PM »

Weak airshows...

I've been watching F-15E strafe and PGM drop videos over Iraq and Afghanistan, and not one of them involved pushing the airframe to the limit. They ALL involved the precise application of lethal airpower in specifically measured and effective amounts. Airshows are publicity events, nothing more. If he isn't on a demo team, a military pilot has absolutely no business "pushing the limit" at an airshow. Even a demo team has to prioritize safety vs. how deep into that gray area near the edge of the envelope they go, and right now there's no reason to push things.

There is zero practical experience that can be gained on the airshow circuit, unless your job is putting on airshows. For a combat pilot, every minute spent flying an airshow demo is one minute of training lost forever. I'm not bagging on airshow pilots because the public should get the chance to see what they're paying for and a professional airshow demo is the best way we can do that without actually shooting someone, but it has nothing at all to do with combat capability.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #24 on:** May 13, 2005, 04:25:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by eagl
Yea, I'll never second-guess anyone's decision to jump out of a plane.

My flight instructor told me that the last thing you do before jumping out was to pull the mixture. I asked him why and he relayed the following:

He told me that while in the military in Louisiana a student and instructor both bailed out of a T-38 due to engine failure. They tried an airstart, but couldn't get it to light.

Once they ejected, the Talon dove steeper than they had tried during the airstart attempts and the unguided plane got enough airspeed to start on its own. The plane came around a few times while they hung under their canopies and then it augered into the bayou.

SunTracker · « **Reply #25 on:** May 13, 2005, 07:58:31 PM »

Military branches still need public support. This was the original reason for military airshows.

But the general consenus is that the Airforce puts on a weak airshow. And I agree. Sure, every once in a while a Navy jet crashes, but everyone has heard of the Blue Angels and knows they are in for a good show.

I've seen the F-16 and F-15 demo teams. I've also seen the Navy F-14 and F-18 Superhornet demo teams. The Navy teams really impressed me. The airforce...well not so much.

The Russians and the Navy can put on a good show though.

Cobra412 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 14, 2005, 07:35:50 AM »

SunTracker our guys in Airshows don't push it. They could but they don't. I'll also be damned if they push it to the extreme and over g one of our airframes. I'm sorry but no matter how excited it'd make the crowd it's not worth the time nor the money to push it that far.

What looks so cool to the crowd ends up costing the squadron, the Air Force and the maintainers alot of time and money to fix. It's extremely easy to put up a Level 3 Mass items over g. That means a ton of work. Most aircrews don't have a clue because they do it and get to walk away afterwards. Meanwhile the maintainers are spending the next 12 hours or more depending on the severity of the over g pulling panels, pods, ect...

Ask any aircrew who's been ordered to help with the over g inspections just how fun it is. Every aircrew that I've known who's been told they have to help us has said they didn't realise just how much work was involved when a high level over g happens. They get a different outlook on it when they have to help fix what they broke.

eagl · « **Reply #27 on:** May 14, 2005, 07:58:54 AM »

After my one and only level-3 over-g, I spent 4 hours pulling panels. It wasn't much fun doing that after an already full day at work and I wasn't any good at it, but the MX guys appreciated it.

eskimo2 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 14, 2005, 08:16:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by eagl
Weak airshows...

I've been watching F-15E strafe and PGM drop videos over Iraq and Afghanistan, and not one of them involved pushing the airframe to the limit. They ALL involved the precise application of lethal airpower in specifically measured and effective amounts. Airshows are publicity events, nothing more. If he isn't on a demo team, a military pilot has absolutely no business "pushing the limit" at an airshow. Even a demo team has to prioritize safety vs. how deep into that gray area near the edge of the envelope they go, and right now there's no reason to push things.

There is zero practical experience that can be gained on the airshow circuit, unless your job is putting on airshows. For a combat pilot, every minute spent flying an airshow demo is one minute of training lost forever. I'm not bagging on airshow pilots because the public should get the chance to see what they're paying for and a professional airshow demo is the best way we can do that without actually shooting someone, but it has nothing at all to do with combat capability.

I knew a fighter pilot who was in a bar with his combat experienced fighter pilot buddies. In walks the Thunderbirds in their spiffy uniforms; they threw them out!

As far as aircraft limits go,
Spectators at air shows are just as thrilled without the pilot pushing it to the limit. I mean, if a pilot flies by at the stall speed, or at a much safer 110% of the stall speed, its going to look pretty much the same. Perhaps other fighter pilots can tell the difference, but hardly anyone else.

eskimo