Author Topic: Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet  (Read 1382 times)

Offline Xjazz

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« on: May 12, 2005, 01:53:10 PM »


Yesterday the Hungarian Mig-29 pilot Zoltán"Topi" Szabó (lieutenent) was practising a aerobatics routine for international airshow(?) at Kecskemet airport.  

Suddenly one engine explode at 300-400m altitude at ~750kmh speed. His collegues radio to him the situatiuon and request to put burning plane quickly down.

Topi had big problems to put throttle to the idle before ejecting. Plane crash as planed to the open fields next at airport.

Mig was ~12 year old and engines has changed year ago. This was a second Mig-29 crash.

Hungarian site
http://www.jetfly.hu/rovatok/repules/katonai/hirek/crash__050512/

Video 6.2M
http://www.jetfly.hu/videok/topi/topi.wmv

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2005, 01:59:50 PM »
Great that he got out.

Offline Wolfala

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2005, 02:14:56 PM »
Looks like an uncontained turbine failure


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Offline FUNKED1

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2005, 03:35:49 PM »
Russian ejection seats rock.

Offline eagl

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2005, 03:46:01 PM »
A lot of negative-G flight in there... Not so good on the oil system and bearings in some designs.

One nice thing about the F-15...  They just don't explode or go out of control when on fire.  Lots of redundancy, and guys in both the F-15C and F-15E have flown back to base with an entire engine bay and aft portion of the plane engulfed in flames and landed safely.  I know of at least 3 specific cases that looked an awful lot like this one, except the pilot flew back and landed.  And then got out in a hurry and watched his plane melt to the ground :eek:
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Offline Wolfala

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2005, 03:50:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
A lot of negative-G flight in there... Not so good on the oil system and bearings in some designs.

One nice thing about the F-15...  They just don't explode or go out of control when on fire.  Lots of redundancy, and guys in both the F-15C and F-15E have flown back to base with an entire engine bay and aft portion of the plane engulfed in flames and landed safely.  I know of at least 3 specific cases that looked an awful lot like this one, except the pilot flew back and landed.  And then got out in a hurry and watched his plane melt to the ground :eek:


True, but with the amount of aluminum in that plane, I wouldn't want to ride it out. He made the right call with the martin baker club.


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Offline Xjazz

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2005, 03:56:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wolfala
Looks like an uncontained turbine failure


I don't know what this mean. please, could you explain?

Thanks

Offline eagl

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2005, 03:57:01 PM »
Yea, I'll never second-guess anyone's decision to jump out of a plane.  In training, the last step of the inflight fire checklist states something to the effect of "if fire persists - eject".

The F-15 is just remarkably durable that's all, not trying to imply that the Mig-29 is unusually flammable or the pilot didn't do the right thing.  It looked like he stuck with it trying to make something happen but the airframe itself was probably on fire by the time he got the fuel to the bad engine shut off, so he didn't have much choice.

FWIW, an uncontained engine failure is what you call it when the engine fails and parts go shooting out the sides of the engine casing.  The external casing is reinforced to be able to hold or at least slow down turbine blades if they start coming apart, but at high engine rpm the casing and firewalls/bulkheads may not be strong enough to contain all the bits as they explode from the engine.  Ideally, if an engine lets go like that the engine bay is strong enough to be a second line of defense and may contain the resulting explosion, fragmentation, and fire while the pilot shuts down the fuel flow to the engine bay.  In practice, sometimes the fragments are moving fast enough to cut through the bulkheads and will damage either the other engine, or fuel lines upstream of the fuel cutoff valves.  Or the fire is so hot that even though the fire is initially contained, the engine bay itself catches fire and can't be extinguished.  300 knots of wind fanning an aluminum-titanium alloy or composite flame will turn the whole engine bay into a big blowtorch.  In most aircraft, it's only a short time until something critical fails in that situation.  In the T-38, what usually goes next are the hydraulic lines to the horizontal stab because they run right along the engine bays on the way to the tail and even a fuel fire in the engines will melt them.  A fighter ought to be more durable than that, but a metal fire will eventually burn through even the most hardened structures.  The question is how long will it last.  The F-15 has proven to last one hell of a long time in some cases.

Of course, it's all about luck too.  One F-15E took 14+ ducks or geese down both engines, and flew home burning like a roman candle.  Another hit a single bird but the impact and failures destroyed a critical flight control component downstream of the redundant systems, so it went down almost immediately.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2005, 04:06:51 PM by eagl »
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Offline Xjazz

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2005, 04:13:05 PM »
TY Eagl.

BTW is it just me or something really fly out from that Mig at 16:29:42-43?

Offline mora

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2005, 04:17:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xjazz
I don't know what this mean. please, could you explain?

Thanks


I believe it means that parts flew out through the engine casing, hence not "contained".

Offline Wolfala

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2005, 04:18:11 PM »
When I was training about 10 years ago up in Danbury Connecticut, I saw a Kingair 200 take out 25 Geese while landing. Trashed both engines, wind screen, wings, horizontal stab - both engines flamed - was lucky he was landing and not taking off.

As always, its a run of the dice - 1 golden bb bird or 15 - #'s don't mean jack if it hits a critical component.

With the aluminum comment, I was eluding to the possibility of structural failure more then anything with a fire of that nature.


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Offline Replicant

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2005, 05:41:53 PM »
He may have ejected since he thought it be safer to have the plane crash where he wants it too rather than have the plane disintergrate on circuit and the potential of it hitting a populated area.
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Offline kevykev56

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2005, 06:02:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xjazz
TY Eagl.

BTW is it just me or something really fly out from that Mig at 16:29:42-43?


It looks to me as if something flew out the right engine at that time, a rather large peice!
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Offline Fishu

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2005, 06:53:13 PM »
A blowtorch is usually a lost plane did you land it or not, except after landing its harder to get out of the cockpit and the fire may rapidly 'eat' the whole plane after stopping.

I'd rather eject.

Offline Masherbrum

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Hungarian Mig-29 crash yesterday at Kecskemet
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2005, 12:28:48 AM »
Good to know the "Annual Russian Ejection Seat Roundup" is still going strong.

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