Author Topic: Tank armour BS  (Read 1087 times)

Offline rabbidrabbit

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Tank armour BS
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2005, 06:40:52 PM »
what does all this have to do with vehicle armor?

Offline ImNutz

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you see
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2005, 12:34:33 AM »
this is why most people wont post !
In stead of getting a real answer all they get is Insults, called names, told there stupid or whatever..and even Questioned  about there system....my orgiinal post was for a real htc employee!

as far as those saying my system is not what i say it is!  i smell a hint of  "I WISH I HAD ONE!"

Offline SkyWolf

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Re: you see
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2005, 07:42:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ImNutz
this is why most people wont post !

Who says most people won't post? That's ridiculous. What are you... like 9 years old or something?

 
In stead of getting a real answer all they get is Insults, called names, told there stupid or whatever..and even Questioned  about there system....my orgiinal post was for a real htc employee!

I think it's interesting that you are the one saying things like "if you knew anything about computers" or "your pathetic HP" and then complaining about insults. Man up Dude.

as far as those saying my system is not what i say it is!  i smell a hint of  "I WISH I HAD ONE!"


Well... I'm just glad I have an AMD. :rolleyes:


Woof

Offline ImNutz

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Tank armour BS
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2005, 09:30:31 PM »
:rolleyes:
whatever!

Offline OOZ662

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Tank armour BS
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2005, 11:28:04 PM »
Quote
ummm no he was like 50m in front of me Duh! What angle? were both on same level of ground! His left side to my front!

No he was RIGTH IN FRONT OF ME!!!!!! you know the front of my tiger!
not the side, rear, left rear ,right rear etc.. right in front..your
explanation has no merit!

I know this but ill tell you what how about we goto any base ill bring a p40 you bring a 262 but you have to start on the deck ill already be flying you have to just TAKE YOUR CHANCES AGAINST A P-40 OVER YOU AIRFIELD AS YOU TRY OT LIFE OFF WITH YOUR 262!
Hmmm dont think you would do this just as i wouldnt take a m3 againt a panzer to fight it....umm i used the tiger beacause it is SUPPOSE TO HAVE THE ADVANTAGE.....You know THICKER ARMOUR BIGGER CANNON 125mm DUHHHHHH!


Quote
this is why most people wont post !
In stead of getting a real answer all they get is Insults, called names, told there stupid or whatever..and even Questioned about there system....my orgiinal post was for a real htc employee!


You brought it on yourself by posting this in a form of a whine (not a bug report), insulting other users, screaming like a 14 year old girl in heat (believe me, I know. Look at my sig.), and not checking if this had been reported before.

And I'm going to scream connection. It might not be yours, but the other user's. The internet has more than one dimension.
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline Kev367th

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Tank armour BS
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2005, 12:56:13 PM »
Same problems different day.
Maybe if we keep posting about the GV bugs something will get done about them (eventually).

Can confirm the M3 bouncy rounds, happens on a regular basis.
I've bounced Tiger and Panzer rounds off M3's at d400 and less, sounds like BS to me.
Something is definately weird regarding the hit/damage model.
Killed a Panzer with a Panzer at d3200, 1 shot to turret, one rolls out from behind hill, perfect side shot at d800, NADA.

In fact I have killed Panzers with a Tiger at ranges exceeding d5000!!!!
This is far better than ANY of the current 'super tanks' (Challenger, M1) can do. In fact the record is held by a Challenger during the Gulf War (Round 1) where an Iraqi tank was killed at a little over 3 kilometers.

Some guy killed a Panzer or Tiger with his .45 after bailing out. This is starting to get into the realms of fantasy, what happened to the 'simulation' side of things.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2005, 01:00:52 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline shiningpathb4me

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I kill any tiger at that range . . .
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2005, 09:08:25 PM »
I kill any tiger within 900 that doesnt kill me first.  He knew where to shoot you.  Tigers have weak spots and can be killed with one shot if you know them. 1 shot turret kills are easy, then 1 or 2 more kill the tank.  A fuel tank hit at close range is a 1 shot kill.  Since the turret is an easier target, I'll go for it first, then kill him at my leisure when he's helpless

Offline Kweassa

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Tank armour BS
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2005, 10:38:11 PM »
You can fire hundred rounds into an armoured surface and not be able to inflict damage, if the angle is wrong. The impact of AP hits are not cumulative.

 However, there are cases where you fire many shots into an enemy tank and they do not bounce. Apparently the enemy tank did not receive any damage. A friendly tank comes in from another angle, and blows him up with one shot - but you get the kill.

 In this case, I can only presume that the shells fired did not penetrate, but did not bounce either. Since it didn't do any damage, the shells probably lodged itself in the middle of the armoured plate. The enemy tank is fine.

 However, when the 'determine who killed it' code comes to work upon the target's destruction, these 'lodged' shots will count as 'damage points' to the person who fired at it, and thus, the code will determine that the guy who did not do any damage, but hammered in more AP rounds which failed to penetrate, as the winner, instead of the guy who fired a single round and penetrated, thus, killed the target.

 It's probably a flaw of the coding that awards kills, rather than a flaw in the armour model. As of yet, when it comes down to tank vs tank battles, I've never, ever seen or experienced anything inexplicable. (except possibly the undamaged sprockets or stuff as some might pointout - which probably comes from the fact that the tank DM isn't as detailed as plane DM)


 As for the AP shots bouncing off unarmoured targets(not puncturing, but actually bounding) - well, got no explanation for that one. Maybe the modelling for light GVs aren't as complex as tanks, and some discrepancy between the two models cause wierd happenings. Most experienced tankers recommend HE shots to kill M-16s or LVTs, instead of AP shots.

 
 Other than that, tank vs tank, anything can happen. And just because it is unexpected doesn't immediately mean its wrong.

Offline Kev367th

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Tank armour BS
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2005, 11:41:09 PM »
Kweassa - A previous patch was 'supposed' to make hits cumulative.

As for the bouncy rounds on soft skinned vehicles - I think it actaully shows that there IS a flaw in the hit/damage model. The actual modelling of soft skinned vehicles may be less than tanks, but I would assume they share the same hit detection routine as tanks etc.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2005, 11:43:58 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline Brenjen

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on subject
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2005, 09:58:03 AM »
I too have had the problem of a tigers 88MM a.p. shells bouncing off an M-3 at point blank ranges fired from it's 6 O'Clock, when it should always sizzle through the vehicle. I have had problems with tiger on panzer battles from over 1000 yards I.E. my panzer will not penetrate the tigers armour as effectively from greater ranges - thats my shot placement. I have killed numerous tigers with a panzer from ranges under 1000, some with one shot - thats also my shot placement. I feel that most, if not all the problems with tank on tank battles is shot placement not a model problem. But I agree the light skinned vehicles & ricochets is a problem as well as a.p. to the drive wheels doing nothing from point blank ranges. Also,50+ hits on a WWII era tank could rattle a tank apart.....or it could do nothing at all, it all depends on where the shots hit & at what angle & the thickness of the armour &  the calibre of the shell hitting it & the ambient temperatures of the air etc. etc. etc.

Offline OOZ662

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Tank armour BS
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2005, 04:33:40 PM »
According to the engine temp gauges, the air is 0 degrees C. :lol

Yes, I know gauges only work when the engine is started in RL, but shouldn't it jump to the air temperature?

Okay, back to the topic. :rolleyes:
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline shiningpathb4me

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While we're at it . . .
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2005, 09:13:45 AM »
Most of my time is spent in tanks, I only up fighters when a vh is down, or to kill strats at a base. When I up a bomber, its usually to prep a base for capture. (I'm FryLock btw) I'm not sure what, if anything, the original poster here got out of all of this.  I hope he realizes two things:

1. Panzers can kill Tigers at close range. Beyond 1000 their rounds lack the kinetic energy to punch through a Tigers armor. Within 1000, shot placement is still necessary.

2. Weird stuff happens in this game. Anyone who spends enough time in GV's can tell you stories of ridiculous things that happen defying all convention and logic. It happens. One such is the guy who said he killed a tiger w/ 2 shots from an M-8.  If I were you, I wouldnt make a habit of tiger hunting with M-8's, I think you'll be disappointed on a regular basis.

Now to the REAL GV MODELING PROBLEM:

How many times have you stalked, outmanuevered, and outshot an opponent in a seemingly undamaged tank, only to get an assist? Some guy in a Spit IV gets the kill having strafed the tank a couple of times? What if that tank is a Tiger? How is it that a 20mm's get credit for the kill when you know a T-34 won't kill a Tiger no matter how many times you shoot him?  I've gotten to where I won't bother with a tank thats been strafed because I know it's 'pointless'.

It's an issue of risk as well.  I'm placing my tank at risk when I engage him, especially panzer vs tiger. It's not fair that someone in a fighter gets that kill.  I strafed a tiger ONCE with a fighter and after Fredtex killed him, I got credit for the kill.  Many players take advantage of this bug. They score as attack, fly over a GV battle and strafe as many as they can. They then fly off and circle, waiting for the tankers to finish their job.

A 20 or 30mm cannon (WWII Vintage) is not going to kill a tank. But rather than debate that look at it this way, if the tank is still fully operable when you blow his tuuret off, then there is no way the fighter should be given credit for the kill.

Offline rabbidrabbit

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Tank armour BS
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2005, 11:05:24 AM »
If you want to steal kills use 30 of 50 cals.. the number of hits counts more than the ord used.

Offline shiningpathb4me

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See what I mean?
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2005, 07:39:04 AM »
They've actually refined it to the degree they know something like that . . .

Offline rabbidrabbit

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Tank armour BS
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2005, 08:07:01 AM »
I don't but have had it done enough to me .  Its the same with aircraft. The number of hits matters quite a bit.