Originally posted by Sandman
Let's play the "Torment Seagoon with ceaseless religious questions game!"
Lol, thanks Sandman,
that games too easy. I can seldom resist the bait.
My apologies though this time, I'll try my best, but I'm still really sick and it seems to be getting worse...
Shuckins, the church did not "create" the doctrine of eternal punishment. Even if one does not believe the teaching of the Bible, if you follow the flow of the bible from beginning to end as it records the unfolding history of redemption, you cannot help but come away with certain facts:
1) that all men are fallen and sinful and thus worthy of eternal punishment
2) that God would be just to leave them all in a condemned condition
3) that God so loved his fallen creation that in order to redeem some from this damned condition, he sent his son into the world as a Good shepherd to lay down his life a ransom for His sheep.
4) IF God could have effected the salvation of mankind from their sins in any other way other than the sacrifice of His beloved and only begotten Son , he would surely have done so.
Therefore, the main emphasis of the church has been the proclamation of Christ's saving work and the free offer of salvation
from eternal punishment--------------
Anyway Shuckins, if you are really interested here is a historical and biblical overview of the doctrine from an able theologian whom I've been blessed to know over the past few years:
"Historically the Church has generally held the doctrine of the eternal punishment of the wicked. This no doubt is true because of the clear teaching of the Bible on the subject. Henry Buis in his Doctrine of Eternal Punishment surveys the history of the doctrine. He indicates that the reaction to the doctrine of eternal punishment was in part due to the excesses of some of the preaching of the middle ages and early Reformation. There are two main lines of argument against eternal punishment. The first is the liberal doctrine of universalism. This view holds that God is love, and the very idea of eternal punishment is inconsistent with this understanding of God’s nature. There may be some punishment for the wicked, but ultimately all will be saved. This is the official position of the Unitarian Universalist Association. It is the position generally held by modernists or liberals in the mainline denominations.
The other form of opposition to eternal punishment comes from those who believe in annihilation. This doctrine holds that the wicked simply go out of existence, are annihilated at death, while believers are granted the gift of immortality. This was held by Arnobius in the 4th century, and by the Socinians during the 16th century. Today it is taught by Seventh–Day Adventists and Jehovah’s Witnesses. Jehovah’s Witnesses see annihilation as punishment for sin, whereas Seventh–Day Adventists hold that the wicked will suffer punishment, and then escape from it by being annihilated.
Jesus taught more about hell than any other spokesman of the New Testament. “And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matt. 10:28). Here Jesus taught that both body and soul suffer in hell. The language “destroy” might give the impression that Jesus taught annihilation. “And if thy hand or thy foot causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: it is good for thee to enter into life maimed or halt, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into the eternal fire. And if thine eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is good for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire” (Matt. 18:8–9). Notice the phrase “eternal fire” in this citation. The implication is clearly that the punishment of hell fire is eternal.
In Mark 9:43 the fire is called “unquenchable.” “And if thy hand cause thee to stumble, cut it off. It is good for thee to enter into life maimed, rather than having thy two hands to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire...” Again in verse 48 hell is described as the place where the worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. “If the figures used in this passage do not mean unending suffering, they mean nothing at all.” 4 Matthew 25:46 speaks of “eternal punishment.” “And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.”
John 3:16 contrasts perishing with eternal life. The implication is eternal perishing. When this is compared with John 3:36 this perishing is described in terms of the wrath of God abiding on the unbeliever. Thus the perishing is not annihilation, but being under the wrath of God eternally. “He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
Paul spoke of suffering eternal punishment and exclusion from the presence of God in 2 Thess. 1.
“7. and to you that are afflicted rest with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of his power in flaming fire, 8. rendering vengeance to them that know not God, and to them that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus: 9. who shall suffer punishment, [even] eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might...”
Jude also speaks specifically of eternal punishment.
“ . Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, having in like manner with these given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire. . . . 13. Wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame. Wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness hath been reserved forever.”
The book of Revelation has some of the most explicit descriptions of punishment as eternal.
“Rev. 14:10. He also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the Lamb: 11. and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.”
“Rev. 21:8. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part [shall be] in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.”
Hoekema ends his treatment of eternal punishment with the following pointed words:
“What is the significance of the doctrine of eternal punishment? Biblical teaching on hell should add a note of deep seriousness to our preaching and Bible teaching. We shall speak about hell with reluctance, with grief, perhaps even with tears––but speak about it we must. . . . For our missionary enterprise, the doctrine of hell should spur us on to greater zeal and urgency. If it be true that people in foreign lands may be bound for a Christless eternity unless they hear the gospel, how eager we should be to bring them that gospel! For ‘how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher?’ (Rom. 10:14).”
[Smith, Morton H. Systematic Theology, Volume One : Prolegomena, Theology, Anthropology, Christology.]
- SEAGOON
