P-38 - Was its size and shape a disadvantage?

[Ack-Ack]

If you guys haven't been to Widewing's website, you're sure missing out on a lot of fantastic pilot stories and other warbird information.  Found this little article and found it to be quite interesting and pretty much confirms what P-38 pilots have said about the plane's size and shape.


Basically, while a large aircraft, its shape and size wasn't all that much of a disadvantage.

The P-38: Is Size And Shape A Disadvantage?


ack-ack

[Kweassa]

Read this one a long time ago - it's a good article.

 However, IMO it's a bit 'hard-pressed' to reach to the conclusions that the advantages of its size and shape was enough to neutralize the disadvantages such a large airframe held.

 Especially when it basically comes down to "it was large and unique, so it was easily identifiable... so friendly fire won't happen much, and that's a situational advantage"... geez, can't help but smile at this one.

 Especially when the author clearly leaves out on purpose any direct comments on its advantages/disadvantages regarding to its size/shape during combat, in a plane vs plane perspective.. I won't say its biased, but it certainly doesn't tell everything about the plane.

[Ack-Ack]

It also matches what P-38 pilot said about the plane.  Yes, above and below it presented a large target and it's shape was very distinctive but from the the sides, front and back it present a very small, thin profile.  Much smaller than that of any other USAAC fighter.



ack-ack

[GRUNHERZ]

LOL from the front?

A 50 foot wingspan and three fuselage sections..

Come on Ack Ack..

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
If you guys haven't been to Widewing's website, you're sure missing out on a lot of fantastic pilot stories and other warbird information.  Found this little article and found it to be quite interesting and pretty much confirms what P-38 pilots have said about the plane's size and shape.


Basically, while a large aircraft, its shape and size wasn't all that much of a disadvantage.

The P-38: Is Size And Shape A Disadvantage?


ack-ack

You'd think Widewing was a P38 fan

Dan/CorkyJr

[bunch]

shape & size a disadvantage against your stereotypical buck toothed four eyed jap as they dont see well & are poor shots

[Kweassa]

shape & size a disadvantage against your stereotypical buck toothed four eyed jap as they dont see well & are poor shots

 Since even an one-eyed pilot swatted down P-38s regularly in an inferior plane to become one of Japan's greatest aces.. perhaps that's not saying much

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
LOL from the front?

A 50 foot wingspan and three fuselage sections..

Come on Ack Ack..

ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Since even an one-eyed pilot swatted down P-38s regularly in an inferior plane to become one of Japan's greatest aces.. perhaps that's not saying much

Actually, there are no records of Sakai shooting down, let alone engaging any P-38s while he was in the SouthWest Pacific (based in Rabaul, New Guinea).   IIRC, the P-38 didn't get to the New Guinea area until early fall of 1942 and by that time, Saburo Sakai was recovering in Japan after taking a bullet to the head from a Dauntless.  Think that was either mid or late summer of '42.  He may have faced some in the Philippines during the last year of the war since the P-38s often flew long range missions to the Philippines (McGuire was on one such mission when he died).  But if he did, it was not in the Zero.  He may have ran into some over Iwo Jima in late '44 but again, if he did it wasn't in the Zero.

When he was in Rabaul, he probably encountered planes like the Aussie/Kiwi P-40's, USAAC P-40s and P-39s, USN F4F's and other early war carrier planes.


This has always been one of my favorite quotes about the P-38 from a Japanese pilot.  

But the two P-38s chasing me had an incredible climbing power. They stood on their tails and were catching up to my Type 3. I felt shivers down my spine. I have never had this experinece before. P-40s, P-39s, F4Fs, and even F4Us could not follow the Type 3 in steep climb. But this twin boomed P-38 was following me with ease!

Yoshio Matsumoto, 103 Independent Chutai, describing his first encounter with the P-38


ack-ack

[Angus]

One eyed must be an advantage because then you don't have to close one eye to aim

Perk one eyed pilots!!!

[Kweassa]

One eyed must be an advantage because then you don't have to close one eye to aim

Perk one eyed pilots!!!

 Yup!

 Especially when your plane has a good 'ol fashioned ring-and-bead!!

[pellik]

Originally posted by Angus
One eyed must be an advantage because then you don't have to close one eye to aim

Perk one eyed pilots!!!

I say it's a disadvantage because then you can't close one eye to aim.

[Grendel]

On the other hand, wasn't it Adolf Galland himself who said P-38 was the easiest of Allied fighters to shoot down - the big size and easily identifiable shape being big bonuses to German pilots in attack?

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Grendel
On the other hand, wasn't it Adolf Galland himself who said P-38 was the easiest of Allied fighters to shoot down - the big size and easily identifiable shape being big bonuses to German pilots in attack?

And it was also Galland that ran for his life from a P-38 flown by Lowell.  



ack-ack

[HoHun]

Hi Ack-Ack,

Thanks for the link, quite an interesting article!

I'd say the biggest plus of the P-38 shape was its small visible fin area - that's really helps becoming "invisible".

What I'd emphasize a bit more than Widewing did is that visual signature is aspect-dependend, and the P-38 has some low signature aspects (viewed from the same altitude, assuming horizontal flight) and some high signature aspects (mostly when both engines/tail booms are silhouetted at the same time).

I'd also add that while the P-38 had a fairly low visual signature for a plane of its size, it was pretty large to begin with :-)

With regard to the identification aspect, I'm with Widewing in considering it as an advantage, especially considering that it also helps section/flight cohesion if you can tell immediately who's one of your buddies and who's not.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)