Author Topic: Naughty George and Charles...  (Read 1377 times)

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2005, 09:13:22 PM »
Thanks for posting that link Nash. After viewing that, I can rest assured that he is an idiot regarding the matter of UN sanctions and the state of Iraq.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2005, 09:35:20 PM »
How luscious for you, Nuke. Personally, I don't put very much stock into your interpretation of the UN sanctions nor the state of Iraq. But you're allowed your opinions, for what they're worth.

I'd highly suggest reading the entire transcript (a 3 minute ordeal) that Thrawn posted.

Then maybe you can reconsile this:

Quote
"Looks like they may have evidence. Records from the Iraqi Oil Ministry, and Iraqi officials.

I wonder if the Torygraph could get their money back should it turn out to be true.

George is a pretty disgusting person, it seems." - Nuke


....with this:

"Senator, I am not now, nor have I ever been, an oil trader. and neither has anyone on my behalf. I have never seen a barrel of oil, owned one, bought one, sold one - and neither has anyone on my behalf.

"Now I know that standards have slipped in the last few years in Washington, but for a lawyer you are remarkably cavalier with any idea of justice. I am here today but last week you already found me guilty. You traduced my name around the world without ever having asked me a single question, without ever having contacted me, without ever written to me or telephoned me, without any attempt to contact me whatsoever. And you call that justice."

and this:

"Now I want to deal with the pages that relate to me in this dossier and I want to point out areas where there are - let's be charitable and say errors. Then I want to put this in the context where I believe it ought to be. On the very first page of your document about me you assert that I have had 'many meetings' with Saddam Hussein. This is false.

"I have had two meetings with Saddam Hussein, once in 1994 and once in August of 2002. By no stretch of the English language can that be described as "many meetings" with Saddam Hussein.

"As a matter of fact, I have met Saddam Hussein exactly the same number of times as Donald Rumsfeld met him. The difference is Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and to give him maps the better to target those guns. I met him to try and bring about an end to sanctions, suffering and war, and on the second of the two occasions, I met him to try and persuade him to let Dr Hans Blix and the United Nations weapons inspectors back into the country - a rather better use of two meetings with Saddam Hussein than your own Secretary of State for Defence made of his.

"I was an opponent of Saddam Hussein when British and Americans governments and businessmen were selling him guns and gas. I used to demonstrate outside the Iraqi embassy when British and American officials were going in and doing commerce.

"You will see from the official parliamentary record, Hansard, from the 15th March 1990 onwards, voluminous evidence that I have a rather better record of opposition to Saddam Hussein than you do and than any other member of the British or American governments do.

"Now you say in this document, you quote a source, you have the gall to quote a source, without ever having asked me whether the allegation from the source is true, that I am 'the owner of a company which has made substantial profits from trading in Iraqi oil'.

"Senator, I do not own any companies, beyond a small company whose entire purpose, whose sole purpose, is to receive the income from my journalistic earnings from my employer, Associated Newspapers, in London. I do not own a company that's been trading in Iraqi oil. And you have no business to carry a quotation, utterly unsubstantiated and false, implying otherwise.

"Now you have nothing on me, Senator, except my name on lists of names from Iraq, many of which have been drawn up after the installation of your puppet government in Baghdad. If you had any of the letters against me that you had against Zhirinovsky, and even Pasqua, they would have been up there in your slideshow for the members of your committee today.

"You have my name on lists provided to you by the Duelfer inquiry, provided to him by the convicted bank robber, and fraudster and conman Ahmed Chalabi who many people to their credit in your country now realise played a decisive role in leading your country into the disaster in Iraq."

Oh jeeze... it turns out I'm quoting him one paragraph after another from the begining of his testimony. Read the rest, or don't... whatev.

I think it's a fascinating process. The posting of some story, the bolstering of the story, the condemnations and then... the most fascinating part... the defense after the story gets debunked. Hell - if it weren't for that there would practically be no AH OC bulletin board.

Someone in this thread, remarking on the upcoming testimony of George Galloway said "This is gonna be good." It certainly was, although I'm not sure this is what he had in mind.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2005, 09:37:43 PM by Nash »

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2005, 09:40:44 PM »
Nash, his words are just words at this point.

The things he said about the UN sanctions and the condition of Iraq are funny to me.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2005, 09:53:06 PM »
Funny ha ha? Well good. Nuke is amused. Uhm... whoopty do.

But yes, you're right. His words are just his words (have you read them?). And the words of the Senate report that kicked this whole thread off are also just words.

But to my mind - I would think that the words used to accuse someone of a crime could meet an evidentiary standard that would overcome any words of the defendant whilst defending against them.

Do the Senate report's words meet that test? If so, by all means elucidate for your dear readers.

Or...

Simply say "George is a pretty disgusting person, it seems" and eke out a laugh or two about it somehow.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2005, 10:03:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Funny ha ha? Well good. Nuke is amused. Uhm... whoopty do.

But yes, you're right. His words are just his words (have you read them?). And the words of the Senate report that kicked this whole thread off are also just words.

But to my mind - I would think that the words used to accuse someone of a crime could meet an evidentiary standard that would overcome any words of the defendant whilst defending against them.

Do the Senate report's words meet that test? If so, by all means elucidate for your dear readers.

Or...

Simply say "George is a pretty disgusting person, it seems" and eke out a laugh or two about it somehow.


Yeah, he speaks to the US senate and blames them for UN sanctions, for one. Then he forgets to mention that all of Saddam's killings have ended, thus saving thousands of lives. I guess he'd rather have Saddam in charge. I guess he speaks for Iraqis on this matter.

He then says that the Iraqi people have resisted the occupation, when in reality, only a small minority have resisted.....and they have done so by killing other Iraqis.......the Iraqis who voted and want to be free.

Nash, I know this guy is your hero, but he's not mine. The reason I said he was disgusting was that he constantly supported Saddam.

The report presented to the US senate seemed to have evidence against George, in my opinion.

Now, even though you are facinated by George and his words, let's just wait and see what his words are worth.

Nash, go ahead and take him for his word.........you are doing so blindly.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2005, 10:16:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Yeah, he speaks to the US senate and blames them for UN sanctions, for one.  


His thoughts on the sanctions have.... what?... to do with his role in the Oil/Food scandal?

Quote
Then he forgets to mention that all of Saddam's killings have ended, thus saving thousands of lives. I guess he'd rather have Saddam in charge. I guess he speaks for Iraqis on this matter.


Making him guilty of having a role in Oil/Food..... how?

Quote
He then says that the Iraqi people have resisted the occupation, when in reality, only a small minority have resisted.....and they have done so by killing other Iraqis.......the Iraqis who voted and want to be free.


Which just goes to show how badly this guy got his hands caught in the cooky jar. Er wait - it doesn't.

Nuke... He wasn't there so folks could pick his brain about random thoughts. He was there to defend against the accusations of his role in the Oil/Food scandle(?). You know - what this thread is about? If you feel that strongly otherwise, by all means start a new thread titled "Galloway's blasphemous thoughts on matters relating to things other than the Oil/Food scandle.

Quote
The report presented to the US senate seemed to have evidence against George, in my opinion.


"Seemed?"....."In my opinion"? So okay, what in your opinion, are these facts?

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2005, 10:29:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
His thoughts on the sanctions have.... what?... to do with his role in the Oil/Food scandal?



Making him guilty of having a role in Oil/Food..... how?



Which just goes to show how badly this guy got his hands caught in the cooky jar. Er wait - it doesn't.

Nuke... He wasn't there so folks could pick his brain about random thoughts. He was there to defend against the accusations of his role in the Oil/Food scandle(?). You know - what this thread is about? If you feel that strongly otherwise, by all means start a new thread titled "Galloway's blasphemous thoughts on matters relating to things other than the Oil/Food scandle.



"Seemed?"....."In my opinion"? So okay, what in your opinion, are these facts?


Yeah, I agree. His testimony had nothing to do with his role in the oil for food scandal, which was one of my points. He has an axe to grind....and that he did.

He didn't defend himself very well. He didn't produce any evidence, just his words.

I'll wait to see what the evidence is. You can go ahead and believe his "testimony", I'll waite for the evidense.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2005, 10:44:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Yeah, I agree. His testimony had nothing to do with his role in the oil for food scandal.


Huh?

Slow down.

Just because "he [forgot] to mention that all of Saddam's killings have ended, thus saving thousands of lives", (your take), doesn't mean he forgot to mention anything about his role in Oil/Food.

In fact, he addressed it head on (your gripe with his memory loss about other things that he wasn't there to address nor was asked about aside). The Oil/Food scandal was what he was accused of. That's why he was there. Repeat it if need be.

I find it hysterical that you say "I'll wait to see what the evidence is." Because the evidence SHOULD be in the Senate report that brought this man there to defend against in the first place. So you have it, Nuke.

Yet this guy rebuts it all - point by point (unfortunately for you, leaving out his condemnation of Saddam's brutal dictatorship and other things he didn't mention, wasn't there to mention, and which has no relevance to the charges levied against him).

So again.... You have the evidence (the Senate report), and you have his response. What doesn't stack up? What are you waiting for?

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2005, 10:57:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Huh?



I find it hysterical that you say "I'll wait to see what the evidence is." Because the evidence SHOULD be in the Senate report that brought this man there to defend against in the first place. So you have it, Nuke.

Yet this guy rebuts it all - point by point (unfortunately for you, leaving out his condemnation of Saddam's brutal dictatorship and other things he didn't mention, wasn't there to mention, and which has no relevance to the charges levied against him).

So again.... You have the evidence (the Senate report), and you have his response. What doesn't stack up? What are you waiting for?


Nash, you're funny. The Senate may have evidence. This guy just basically said "I didn't do nothing", and you all all over it as if his words of denial are the end all truth.

Too funny.

He ranted against UN sanctions, death, killing, Iraqis and other things which have nothing to do with the accusations against him.....and those are the things you latched onto.

Let's see what the evidence is. I suspect that there is evidence against him for it to reach this point.

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2005, 11:15:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Let's see what the evidence is. I suspect that there is evidence against him for it to reach this point.



Priceless, "He must be guilty if he got arrested.".

You sound like a tyranical governments dream citizen.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2005, 11:17:11 PM »
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Priceless, "He must be guilty if he got arrested.".

You sound like a tyranical governments dream citizen.



I didn't say he was guilty.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2005, 11:19:00 PM »
Well, it was actually you who latched onto it. Note your replies about Hussein's rule to my actual quoting of his statement.

And contrary to your demonstrated lack of faith in your elected leaders' (and the powers they wield) ability to thoroughly get to the bottom of a major Oil/Food operation and be able to differentiate that  from a private business used to collect checks from journalism work before just going ahead and making the accusation regardless, I guess we will have to wait.... for something?

In otherwords - why didn't the panel simply say "Bull****, Mr. Galloway, because we have records showing....."

They did not. Why? According to you, they could have. It was they, after all, who made those allegations. They, after all, had the evidence.

Because we would both be right in expecting that the allegations were based on something. And I presume that Mr. Galloway could have been reminded of that something in the course of Mr. Galloway's biotch-slapping of them.

What they did instead was to call a recess, dismiss Galloway, then try to forget that the whole ugly incident ever happened.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2005, 11:26:23 PM »
Nash, it seems that he was able to just make a speach without interuption.

This was not a trial. No evidence was presented. George just spewed a bunch of crap that had nothing to do with the hearing, then denied everything. Sorry, I'm not taking his word.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2005, 11:35:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Nash, it seems that he was able to just make a speach without interuption.

This was not a trial. No evidence was presented. George just spewed a bunch of crap that had nothing to do with the hearing, then denied everything. Sorry, I'm not taking his word.


Oh man.

How can you say that "George just spewed a bunch of crap that had nothing to do with the hearing".

How can you say that?

Jesious, Nuke. It's in every gawdamned third sentence he spoke.

And yet, you think he didn't address it, while at the same time blaming him for things that he didn't address involving matters having nothing to do with why he was there.

What's wrong with you?

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2005, 11:38:02 PM »
Nuke, just remember that it was the Senate subcommittee that gave him a soapbox to rant on.